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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Anyone that disagrees with this is not telling the truth --- V5
 --- Professor Sipser
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 22:06:24 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 8/21/24 9:55 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 8/21/2024 8:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 8/21/24 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2024 7:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 8/21/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/21/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-08-21 03:01:38 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *We are only talking about one single point*
>>>>>>> Professor Sipser must have understood that an HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>> that does abort is supposed predict what would happen
>>>>>>> if it never aborted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Professor Sipser understood that what is not a part of the text
>>>>>> is not a part of the agreement. What H is required to predict
>>>>>> is fully determined by the words "halt decider H". The previous
>>>>>> word "simulating" refers to an implementation detail and does
>>>>>> not affect the requirements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>
>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is crucial to the requirements in that it specifies that
>>>>> H is required to predict
>>>>> (a) The behavior specified by the finite string D
>>>>
>>>> Which must include *ALL* of the code of the PROGRAM D, which 
>>>> includes ALL the code of everything it calls, which includes H, so 
>>>> with your system, changing H gives a DIFFERENT input, which is not 
>>>> comparable in behavior to this input.
>>>>
>>>>> (b) As measured by the correct partial simulation of D by H
>>>>
>>>> Nope, by H correctly predicting, with a partial simulation of D by H 
>>>> if possible, if the COMPLETE simulaiton by a "hypothetical H" 
>>>> replacing H but not changing the input, would never halt.
>>>>
>>>>> (c) When H would never abort its simulation of F
>>>>
>>>> Which, since that isn't the case, put you into the realm of fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> (d) This includes H simulating itself simulating D
>>>>
>>>> Right, H must CORRECTLY predict the behavior of an UNABORTED 
>>>> emulation of its input, and if, and only if, it can determine that 
>>>> such an emulation would never halt, then it can abort its emulation.
>>>>
>>>> Note, that is the emulation of this exact input, including D calling 
>>>> the ORIGINAL H, not changing to the Hypothetical, since by the rules 
>>>> of the field, the input is a fixed string, and fully defines the 
>>>> behavior of the input.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are contradicting yourself.
>>> Your ADD may prevent you from
>>> concentrating well enough to see this.
>>>
>>
>> I was right, you couldn't name it so you are just admiting that you 
>> are a liar trying to create an ad hominem attack that failed.
>>
> 
> I have been over this same point again and again and again and
> your "rebuttal" is changing the subject or calling me stupid.
> 

What "change of subject", I just point out what the words you try to use 
actually mean, and why your claims are wrong by the rules of the system 
you claim to be working in.

The fact that you don't understand DOES make you stupid. I don't say you 
are wrong because you are stupid, you are wrong because the words you 
use don't mean what you think they do, and thus your conclusions are 
just incorrect.

That you seem to NEVER LEARN is what makes you stupid.

> Professor Sipser clearly agreed that an H that does
> a finite simulation of D is to predict the behavior
> of an unlimited simulation of D.

Right, H needs to predict in a finite number of steps, what an unlimited 
simulation of this EXACT input, which means that it must call the H that 
you claim to be getting the right answer, which is the H that does abort 
and return non-halting.

Those are the rules of the game, the input MUST be a complete program, 
with ALL its code, and not changed when you try the hypothetical 
unlimited emulator.

Not understanding that is what makes you ignorant. Refusing to learn it 
makes you stupid. Repeating it after you have been told it is wrong 
makes you a pathological liar.

Those are the facts and the proper use of those terms.

If you don't like that state, then do something to learn, and stop just 
lying.

It seems your immortal soul is at stake, and you don't have much time to 
fix things. There is no "appeal" to a higher court when your final 
buzzer goes off.

> 
> Ben saw this right away and it seems that most everyone
> else simply lied about it.
> 
>> Your problem is you don't know what the words mean, and when someone 
>> uses something that confuses you because you don't understand the 
>> words, rathrer than try to find out what it is you don't understand, 
>> you try to put the other person down.
>>
>> Sorry, that just proves you are a stupid idiot that doesn't know what 
>> you are talking about.
>>
>> That means your chance of actually doing what you claim you want to do 
>> is about that of a snowflake in Hell, which you just might get the 
>> chance to see if it can happen.
> 
>