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From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: Usenet's Greatest Poet / gjd
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2024 08:20:35 +0000
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On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 20:55:03 +0000, HC wrote:

> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 9:49:42 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
>> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 1:16:50 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 10, 2022 at 5:48:48 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>> > On 2022-06-09 8:52 p.m., W-Dockery wrote:
>>> > > I know more about Horatio Hornblower's influence on Star Trek than I
>>> do
>>> > > Horatio Nelson's influence on the Hornblower character, but from
>>> what
>>> > > I've just read on Google, Horatio Hornblower was indeed based
>>> partially
>>> > > on Horatio Nelson.
>>> > > HTH and HAND.
>>> > I see "Professor NancyGene" has returned to challenge your claim. So,
>>> > while I'm not all that interested in Hornblower and Nelson, I was
>>> > interested enough to do my own googling.
>>> >
>>> > Here's a website I found by Kyra Cornelius Kramer. She's not a
>>> literary
>>> > expert; according to her bio, she's
>>> >
>>> > "an author and freelance medical anthropologist. She had BS degrees in
>>> > both biology and anthropology from the University of Kentucky, as well
>>> > as a MA in medical anthropology from Southern Methodist University."
>> Which certainly makes her a go-to source for expert opinions on British
>> Naval history.
>>> >
>>> > So she's just an amateur who knows something of the subject. How much,
>>> I
>>> > can't say;
>> Then why bring her up if she is not a credible source?
>>> > but then, I can't say how much if anything Prof. NG knows
>>> > about it either. So Kramer's opinion at least balances that off.
>>> Well, no... she doesn't.
>> No, she doesn't. It sounds like Ms. Kramer read shallowly of Nelson.
>>>
>>> You seem to have missed the point, George.
>>>
>>> Here's what the Wikipedia article said:
>>>
>>> "Inspirations
>>> There are many parallels between Hornblower and real naval officers of
>>> the period, notably Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson, Sir George Cockburn,
>>> Lord Cochrane, Sir Edward Pellew, Jeremiah Coghlan, Sir James Gordon and
>>> Sir William Hoste."
>>>
>>> IOW: Hornblower was *inspired by* Nelson and many of his peers.
>>>
>>> He was not *based on* Nelson as both of the Splooges have claimed.
>>>
>>> "Inspired by" ≠ "based on."
>>>
>>> Words matter.
>> George Dance skipped that part, as it was inconvenient to his argument.
>>> > "One of Nelson’s most interesting legacies is that he was the obvious
>>> > model for Horatio Hornblower, the navy officer in a series of
>>> > best-selling early 20th century novels by C. S. Forester. In turn, the
>>> > protagonist of the Forester novels was the source of Gene
>>> Roddenberry‘s
>>> > inspiration when he created his famous starship captains James T. Kirk
>>> > and Jean-Luc Picard."
>>> >
>>> http://www.kyrackramer.com/2018/09/29/horatio-nelson-hornblower-prototype-and-hero-of-trafalgar/
>>> >
>> "Obvious" is sometimes wrong. See below.
>>> > Kramer doesn't get into the similarities, but one that I noticed from
>>> > her article is that Nelson got seasick. According to the Wikipedia
>>> > article on Hornblower, that was a recurring motif in the novels:
>>> > Hornblower "suffers from seasickness at the start of each of his
>>> voyages."
>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Hornblower#Inspirations
>> So what? One in three people get seasick. Are they all emulating Nelson
>> and Hornblower? We once spent a grueling half-day ocean fishing trip in
>> the waters off San Diego. We were below deck puking the entire time. The
>> rest of the passengers did not say, "Oh, they're just like Nelson and
>> Hornblower!"
>>
>> If George Dance is going to do research, he should go to primary
>> sources. Who is more primary than C. S. Forester for the name of his
>> character and the influences? From "The Hornblower Companion" – C. S.
>> Forester (1964) p. 90:
>>
>> “One final point, before the Margaret Johnson sighted the Bishop Light
>> and we entered the English Channel. This odd character had to have a
>> name – so far he had been merely ‘he’ in my discussions with myself. He
>> had to have a name which the readers would remember easily, which would
>> stand out on the page, and which would not be confused with any other
>> name. […] It would be desirable, but not entirely necessary for ‘him’ to
>> have a slightly grotesque name – something more for his absurd
>> self-consciousness to be disturbed about. The consideration of least
>> weight – the merest milligram – was that ‘he’ was a slightly grotesque
>> character, too. ‘Horatio’ came first to mind, and oddly enough not
>> because of Nelson but because of Hamlet; but it met an essential
>> requirement because it was a name with contemporary associations. Nelson
>> was by no means the only Horatio in late Georgian times. Then, from
>> Horatio, it seemed a natural and easy step to Hornblower. At one moment
>> he was ‘he’; at the next, ‘Horatio’; and yet a moment later he was
>> ‘Captain Horatio Hornblower of His Britannic Majesty’s Navy,’ and the
>> last awkward corner was turned and the novel practically ready to be
>> written, and there was England fully in sight on the port bow.”
>> ----------
>>
>> "Thank God I have done my duty." - NG and "somebody else"

Hello there Corey, I hope you're doing well.

😏