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From: Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The insane progress nobody is talking about
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:18:49 -0700
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On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:20:52 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
<michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 25/06/2024 10.34, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 08:56:17 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper"
>> <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On 20/06/2024 11.21, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 02:59:25 GMT, Random <random@who.cares> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A conventional bulb's filament is not sensitive to AC voltage =
fluctionations,
>>>>> where the conversion electronics is. My guess is that your wiring =
to that
>>>>> light is causing voltage dips and is stressing the electronics in =
the LED bulb
>>>>> base.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen a similar claim about timers that actually count
>>>> cycles-per-second: if those vary then the timer misperforms.
>>>
>>> This isn't really an issue in North America. According to NERC[1], =
frequency in
>>> the Eastern Interconnection (EI) is above 59.972 Hz 95% of the time. =
This is
>>> 99.95% of nominal frequency, or an error of 28 mHz.
>>>
>>> If frequency sat that low for a 24 hour period (which it doesn't; =
frequency error
>>> regularly crosses zero), it would be a loss of 40 seconds in a day.
>>>
>>> As a matter of fact, a few years back, the EI had an ongoing problem =
with frequency
>>> being high: 3 mHz fast as a sustained average over several years. =
This was considered
>>> a significant enough issue to require an investigation[2].
>>>
>>> If uncorrected, it would have caused clocks to gain over 4 seconds =
per day. This
>>> led to regularly implementing Time Error Correction. In this case, =
that meant a
>>> coordinated (across the EI) reduction in generation to reduce =
frequency until the
>>> time error crossed zero again.
>>>
>>> Four seconds error per day is considered a problem. If you live in =
North America,
>>> you can count[3] on your analog clock.
>>=20
>> Three things:
>>=20
>> -- I was talking about a timer, not a clock. In particular, a timer
>> controlling our porch light, when went wonky after about 10 years. It
>> could, of course, have simply aged out, or my switch to CFLs may have
>> been responsible, who can say? And the timer was put in in the 90s.
>> Still works fine as manual switch, though.
>
>Functionally, there is no difference between a timer that works by
>counting cycles and a clock that does the same. The laws of physics
>are uninterested in what you call it. If it integrates frequency,
>it's a clock.
>
>> -- My memory is that our City Light was reducing the CPS deliberately
>> -- or allowing it to fluctuate as it chose -- for some reason.
>
>Seattle City Light can not let their frequency vary independently, =
unless
>they were to disconnect from the WI, which would mean that they could no
>longer buy or sell energy. It would also mean that they would need to
>keep more generators running than would be needed for local consumption,
>just to meet spinning reserve requirements.

I can only report what I remember from what I read at the time.
Possibly in a newpaper, possibly from their newsletter (enclosed with
the paper bill).

And I don't recall the issue of it's being City Light /only/ that was
doing it or even that City Light was doing on it's own initiative.

>> -- Seattle is not in the Eastern Interconnection. Not that I think
>> whatever Interconnection it /is/ in does any different than the EI.
>
>That'd be the Western Interconnection (WI), run by the Western =
Electricity
>Coordinating Council (WECC). (It's often referred to as "WECC", since
>that's the only Regional Entity for the WI.
>
>Recent data[1] show that their worst performance was 2020 Q3,
>when they had a whopping 20+ minutes of absolute frequency error
>(actual versus scheduled) outside of 68 mHz.

But not recent enough. It was installed by 1993. I was still working
when it went wonky, so that was before 2005.=20

>[1] =
<https://www.wecc.org/PerformanceAnalysis/Pages/ReliabilityIndicatorDashb=
oard.aspx?6#Indicator6%3aTrendininterconnectionfrequencyresponseandperfor=
mance>

Well ... I'm not sure where "Northern Baja Mexico" is. "Baja
California" is known to exist, and, since it runs N-S, it presumably
has a northern part.

Bing found a
link<https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=3D8bd1e50c6764bcc5JmltdHM9MTcxOTM2MDA=
wMCZpZ3VpZD0zM2MzMDhjNi0wMDI3LTYwZDQtMWExMS0wNDk2MDE0YjYxMzAmaW5zaWQ9NTIx=
Mg&ptn=3D3&ver=3D2&hsh=3D3&fclid=3D33c308c6-0027-60d4-1a11-0496014b6130&p=
sq=3Dbaja+mexico+vs+baja+california&u=3Da1aHR0cHM6Ly90aGlua3JlYWxzdGF0ZS5=
jb20vd2hhdC1pcy10aGUtZGlmZmVyZW5jZS1iZXR3ZWVuLWJhamEtY2FsaWZvcm5pYS1hbmQt=
YmFqYS1tZXhpY28v&ntb=3D1>
but it produces a blank page, which is a pity because the text quoted
by Bing:

"Baja California and Baja Mexico refer to the peninsula that extends
from the southwestern portion of mainland Mexico. Located in the
northwestern part of Mexico, Baja California =85"

which seems to promise an explanation and so is quite enticing!

Looking up WECC history on Bing produces:

"WECC has a long history of assuring reliability in the West that
began when it was originally formed in 1967 by 40 power systems, then
known as the Western Systems Coordinating Council (WSCC). Thirty-five
years later in 2002, the WSCC became WECC when three regional
transmission associations merged."

raising the possibility of teething troubles affecting cycles at about
the right time.

But, as I said, the timer could simply have aged out or reacted badly
to having a CFL to control.=20

I should note that the /thermostat/ we use, old as it is, uses a
rechargeable battery for power -- and is wired in to the house wiring
so that the battery is always charged. Thus, it will not lose time in
a power outage and, if the power is back on when it flips to "Day",
will start the furnace if appropriate. The furnace, of course, will
not run without electricity, even though it burns oil for heat.
--=20
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"