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From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: The Return of Michael Monkey
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 04:22:42 +0000
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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 4:08:43 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 21:55:57 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>> George J. Dance wrote:
>>>
>>> from
>>> https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=253903&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#253903
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 15:22:04 +0000, Michael Monkey aka "HarryLime"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MMP) has returned, as Will and I
>>> suspected. Even the name of his new sock, "HarryLime", looked like an
>>> obvious clue to the "third man" on Team Monkey (the other two being
>>> Jim/Edward and NancyGene). So we devised a way to have him out himself:
>>> Will would bump up an old thread, I'd reply to it, and if "Harry" were
>>> MMP, he wouldn't be able to resist replying. And it worked.
>>>
>>> (Since the backthread has served its purpose, I've snipped most of it.)
>>>
>>>> It's "Jerk store!" time, again.  George Dance re-responds to a post I
>>>> made almost two years ago (because he thinks I'm no longer here to smack
>>>> him around).
>>>
>>> If further proof that this is MMP were needed, here it is: he walked
>>> right into the trap, and he's still clueless that it even happened.
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 4:13:51 +0000, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>> The above passage demonstrates why so-so poets should avoid
>>>>> predetermined formats at all costs.  The "sentence" is incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> GD: That's because it wasn't a "sentence" until "Edward" added the full
>>>> stop. Which demonstrates only that so-so poets should avoid
>>>> repunctuating their betters' poetry.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: GD is now aping PJR (because PJR is no longer here to slap him
>>>> around).
>>>
>>>>> Years conspire to decrease possibilities.
>>>>
>>>> GD: Exactly what the poem says, which Michael would have discovered if
>>>> he
>>>> had bothered to look it up. He didn't even need to look it up on line;
>>>> he could have found it in his own "literary journal" (AYOS 2021, 10).
>>>>
>>>> MMP: My literary journal was created to highlight the best examples of
>>>> poetry from AAPC's various members.  The best poetry by Member G does
>>>> not necessarily measure up to the best poetry of Member J.
>>>>
>>>> As Mr. Dance has so ably demonstrated above, his own poem left no traces
>>>> on my memory.
>>>
>>> MMP's memory lapses are something I'm sure we're all familiar with by
>>> now. But let us remember what else I just ably demonstrated: that back
>>> in 2021 (when he was still hoping to recruit me as an ally) he
>>> considered Possibilities one of "the best examples of poetry" on AAPC.
>>>
>>>>> These too lines don't form a coherent sentence.
>>>>
>>>> GD: I think you mean those *two* lines. They are not a sentence, even in
>>>> Edward's edit, and neither of them are a sentence in the actual poem.
>>>> Once again, Edward added a full stop that's not in the original (as
>>>> Michael would have known, if he'd bothered to read the original).
>>>>
>>>> MMP: It seems that Mr. Dance's purpose in reopening this thread is to
>>>> re-state that Mr. Rochester mistakenly added end punctuation to his
>>>> lines, thereby making his poem appear to be more illiterate than it
>>>> actually is.
>>>
>>> MMP seems completely clueless about my actual "purpose" but that's par
>>> for the course. So let's focus on what's important:
>>> (1) He claimed my poem was "illiterate";
>>> (2) I pointed out that every example of "illiteracy" he found was added
>>> by his ally Jim;
>>> (3) Now he's claiming my poem is still "illiterate".
>>>
>>> Remember, again, that three years ago, when he still hoped to talk me
>>> into becoming his ally, he considered it one of "the best poems" on aapc
>>> that year. Now that he considers me his adversary, it's "illiterate."
>>> "When [someone] is seen as an adversary, you assign a childish name to
>>> him and claim he can't write."
>>>
>>>> The fact that Mr. Dance feels compelled to do so nearly two years after
>>>> both the original post *and* after his original refutation demonstrates
>>>> an alarming degree of obsessive pettiness on his part.
>>>
>>> LOL! Will picked the thread - and it's a good one - but there were many
>>> other possibilities. (heh!) Suffice it to say, Jim is a fool and no one
>>> in their right mind would judge their poetry by what he says about it.
>>>
>>>> GD: Having children restores the lost possibilities; you no longer have
>>>> them, but your children do.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: No, they don't.  If the poem is expressing a universal principle,
>>>> then the children's possibilities will necessarily be decreased as they
>>>> mature as well.
>>>
>>> Sure, onr's children will fail to realize some of their possibilities,
>>> too; but they will also realize some that their parents did not. Just
>>> because MMP or Jim failed to reach your own goals, for example, it does
>>> not follow that your children will fail at their goals as well.
>>>
>>>>> This, again, is not a coherent sentence.
>>>>
>>>> GD: Once again, that is solely due to Edward's editing.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: "Once again,..." Quite.  And one supposes that will be repeating it
>>>> yet a third time two years from now.
>>>
>>> If MMP shows up two years from now with a new sock, we might try the
>>> same thing. But not probably with a different thread; the archives are
>>> full of threads like this.
>>>
>>>>> You really spend way too much
>>>>> time interacting with the Donkey; his illiteracy is rubbing off.
>>>>
>>>> GD: It figures that you'd try to blame Will; but I don't see how you can
>>>> blame him for Edward's sloppy editing.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: Mr. Donkey serves as proof of the old adage concerning the "one bad
>>>> apple."
>>>>
>>>> In this case, the presence of one illiterate member of a group causes
>>>> the other members to relax their standards.
>>>>
>>>> Or, in the words of another adage, any group will inevitably settle to
>>>> the level of its lowest participant.
>>>
>>> MMP repeatedly complains about me repeating this point, but it doesn't
>>> seem to have sunk in yet, so:
>>> The only examples of "illiteracy" that have been shown in this thread
>>> came from Jim. (Better yet, let's "settle" to MMP's level and start
>>> calling Jim Mr. Chimp again.)
>>>
>>> I'd say the only reason for MMP to call Will an illiterate that's been
>>> shown in this thread is that he doesn't like Will. Will's also MMP's
>>> adversary. As he says: "When [someone] is seen as an adversary, you
>>> assign a childish name to him and claim he
>>> can't write."
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/EA_gCO9_BDk/m/DWT2Fq0TBwAJ?hl=en
>>>
>>>>> How do the possibilities justify our lives if they are decreased to
>>>>> irrelevancy by years?
>>>>
>>>> GD: As I already explained: they're restored in the next generation.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: And as I've already explained, the next generation's possibilities
>>>> are as limited as those of their forebears.  Since time and circumstance
>>>> will *always* conspire to decrease their possibilities by the time they
>>>> reach adulthood, the seemingly unlimited possibilities at birth are
>>>> necessarily an illusion.
>>>
>>> Nonsense; people can and do realize possibilities in their lives,
>>> including those their ancestors never did. No one can do everything, of
>>> course, but plenty of people have done enough to justify their existence
>>> {many of whose ancestors did nothing to justify theirs, beyond - wait
>>> for it - having families).
>>>
>>>>> Roughly speaking (i.e., ignoring the incoherent pseudo-sentences),
>>>>
>>>> GD: I do hope we've spent enough time on Edward's pseudo-sentences.
>>>>
>>>> MMP: LOL! If Mr. Dance actually meant what he said, he wouldn't have
>>>> reopened a two-year old thread in order to bitch about Mr. Rochester's
>>>> "edits" to his poem a second time.
>>>
>>> LOL right back. I've already explained why I commented on the thread
>>> Will reopened. But I'm serious; we've advanced the debate. MMP has not
>>> disputed that all "illiteracy" he discovered was caused by Mr. Chimp,
>>> but he's sticking to his story that the poem is still "illiterate"
>>> anway, as per his editorial philosophy: "When [someone] is seen as an
>>> adversary, you assign a childish name to him and claim he can't write."
>>>
>>>>> your
>>>>> poem is saying that we are all born with unlimited potential, but that
>>>>> the years conspire (with circumstance) to undercut our ability to
>>>>> achieve it.
>>>
>>> What is "it"? No one realizes "unlimited" possibilites, but plenty of
>>> people realize some, including ones their parents failed to realize.
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