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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,us.politics
Subject: Re: kids these days
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin
><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh. I just hired one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is a lot of truth in that article.
>>>>>>>I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing 
>>>>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
>>>>>>>One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
>>>>>>>and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
>>>>>>>a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
>>>>>>>build  proto circuits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
>>>>>>>and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
>>>>>>>thing), the works.
>>>>>>>As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
>>>>>>>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
>>>>>>>I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
>>>>>>>to sync some remote location,
>>>>>>>turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that?
>>>>>>> (Must have missed that :-) ).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It all depends,.
>>>>>>>Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes I did read that posting
>>>>>Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
>>>>>to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
>>>>>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
>>>>>value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
>>>>>for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
>>>>>So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
>>>>>An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
>>>>>And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal, 
>>>>> And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
>>>>>And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
>>>>>but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
>>>>>will change the outcome.
>>>>>So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
>>>>>Those would often go high in teefee sets...
>>>>>
>>>>>...
>>>>
>>>>Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
>>>>anyway.
>>>>The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
>>>>
>>>>Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
>>>>grads, it seems. :(
>>>
>>>Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
>>>we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
>>>But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
>>>
>>>Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
>>>And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
>>>protocols, what not... standarss...
>>>
>>>And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
>>>now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
>>>SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
>>>
>>>US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
>>
>>What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and
>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society
>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
>
>Look at China
>
>
>>Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still
>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
>
>I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
>Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
>you pay more taxes..
>Bad system.
>
>As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck.
>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
>making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
>
>Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
>Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
>
>Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders.
>?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q

I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme
Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)