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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DD emulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally --- x86
 code
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2025 16:11:25 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/1/25 8:51 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/1/2025 7:14 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 3/1/25 6:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/1/2025 2:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2025-03-01 00:47:58 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> _DD()
>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>>>
>>>>> When we hypothesize that the code at machine address
>>>>> 0000213c is an x86 emulator then we know that DD
>>>>> remains stuck in recursive emulation and cannot possibly
>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally.
>>>>
>>>> The emulator itself is stuck and cannot return normally but it doesn't
>>>> know it cannot return normally. At some point it runs out of memory
>>>> and terminates normally or abnormally.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes you are correct about this sub-step of two steps.
>>>
>>>>> When we add the additional complexity that HHH also
>>>>> aborts this sequence at some point then every level
>>>>> of recursive emulation immediately stops. This does
>>>>> not enable any DD to ever reach its "ret" instruction.
>>>>
>>>> When we add an additional complexity we must note that there are other
>>>> additional complexities that could be added instead.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure we could carefully examine every detail about the price
>>> of tea in China.
>>>
>>> When we are answering the question that seems impossible for
>>> anyone here to pay attention to even when repeated hundreds of times:
>>>
>>> Can the above DD correctly emulated by HHH possibly
>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally?
>>
>> The problem is that if HHH correctly emulates DD, then it can not answer, 
> 
> 
> That is the same stupid shit as saying that no one
> can possibly tell that an infinite loop will ever
> stop running unless they run it and wait until after
> the end of time.
> 
> Since you are not stupid why do you say such stupid shit?
> 

Nope. Just that there are SOME non-halting behaivors that can not be 
detected.

You are just too stupid to know the difference, and too stupid to see 
you are that stupid.

You keep on making that sort of strawman claim, likely because you just 
don't know enough to know what is true or not.

Note, even you agree that if HHH doesn't abort its emulation of the DD 
built on the non-aborting HHH, that it will never answer.

So, you hit the problem that you need to decide what the HHH that DD 
calls is, and that is the only HHH that you can use to claim to get the 
right answer if you want to be a counter-example to Linz and the like.

You are just too stupid to understand that.