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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception
 out on its ass
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 19:51:04 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/3/25 9:13 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/3/2025 2:49 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 03.mrt.2025 om 02:21 schreef olcott:
>>> On 3/2/2025 6:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 3/2/25 5:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/2/2025 4:15 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 02.mrt.2025 om 22:21 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _DD()
>>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
>>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
>>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
>>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
>>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
>>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
>>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
>>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
>>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret
>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DD emulated by HHH according to the behavior that DD
>>>>>>> specifies cannot possibly reach its own "ret" instruction
>>>>>>> and terminate normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This process computes the mapping from the actual input
>>>>>>> (not any other damn thing) finite string to the non
>>>>>>> terminating behavior that this finite specifies when
>>>>>>> it calls its own emulator in recursive emulation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words 'non terminating behavior' means that *HHH* was 
>>>>>> unable to reach the 'ret' instruction. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. The fact that DD calls its own emulator
>>>>> makes DD unable to reach its own "ret" instruction.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it calls a specific emulator, that of a given HHH. There is no 
>>>> requirement for the program DD to be emulated by that program.
>>>>
>>>
>>> THE FACT THAT DD DOES CALL ITS OWN EMULATOR
>>> THE FACT THAT DD DOES CALL ITS OWN EMULATOR
>>> THE FACT THAT DD DOES CALL ITS OWN EMULATOR
>>> THE FACT THAT DD DOES CALL ITS OWN EMULATOR
>>>
>>> MAKES DD UNABLE TO REACH ITS OWN "ret" INSTRUCTION
>>> MAKES DD UNABLE TO REACH ITS OWN "ret" INSTRUCTION
>>> MAKES DD UNABLE TO REACH ITS OWN "ret" INSTRUCTION
>>> MAKES DD UNABLE TO REACH ITS OWN "ret" INSTRUCTION
>>>
>> Shouting or repeating false claims do not make them true.
>>
> 
> Richard said that he has ADD and he has proven that he only glances
> at a couple of my words before contriving an incorrect rebuttal
> on the basis of ignoring most of these words.
> 
> I have found that repeating these words in all caps helps
> Richard to see these words for the first time.


Nope, you think it does, but it doesn't.

> 
>> No, the fact that HHH tries to emulate itself makes HHH unable to 
>> reach the 'ret' instruction, where other simulators or direct 
>> execution have no problem to reach it, HHH gets stuck in simulating 
>> *itself*.
>>
> 
> That your technical skills are insufficient to understand
> the code that conclusively proves that HHH does emulate
> itself emulating DD
> 
> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
> Is far less than no rebuttal at all.
> 
> 

Nope, that code just proves that HHH only partially, and thus 
INCORRECTLY emulates itself emulating DD.

The problem is that its trace differs from the actual trace because it 
aborts, not because it sees an actual difference in behavior,