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From: Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: PTD was the most-respected of the AUE regulars ...
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 17:24:09 -0400
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On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 19:37:32 +0100, Hibou
<vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Le 29/07/2024 à 17:21, Rich Ulrich a écrit :
>> Hibou wrote:
>>>
>>> In Usenet forums, I don't think deliberate lying is much of a problem,
>>> but people are often mistaken. It's hard to admit that one is in error;
>>> it throws doubt on one's ability. Also, our beliefs are part of who we
>>> are; to let one go is to lose part of oneself.
>> 
>> You are still missing the idea that autistics often 'relate
>> differently' to the idea of truth vs. falsehood; 'innocent mistake' is
>> not in their working vocabulary.
>
>Is it not?
>
>Perhaps there has been some drift in this discussion. I think its 
>starting point was your message 
><news:fk8aajpcod5eeq8okojbonqtslbnujm92m@4ax.com> (Sat. 27th at 12:52:19 
>-0400) in which you described a character who refused to admit error and 
>called contradictors stupid and liars. You went on to infer that he 
>therefore had autism.
>
>I think this inference is shaky.

No, my remark about Stupid and Liars was 'additional commentary' 
rather than 'inference.'  And I gave the interpretation I eventually 
came to, of when he used the words Stupid or Liar. 

Cut-and-paste (and re-wrap):
   Also typical for the autistic spectrum --he frequently called 
   people 'stupid' and 'liar'. STUPID meant he didn't understand what 
   was said, and LIAR meant he thought it was 'obviously' wrong. 

He never said, Oh, I see how you make that mistake. 

>
>I've been called stupid countless times, especially in Usenet fora, and 
>met many who have clung to demonstrably false beliefs (dear old 
>fr.soc.religion in its heyday!) - too many, I think, to infer that they 
>were all suffering from some syndrome or other. It's just human nature, 
>innit?

I will repeat, neurotypicals (NTs) and Aspies overlap a lot. But when
a person shows a bunch of separate, rare traits ... that is what 
adds up to a diagnosis. And, How often does a behavior show up?
 
I counted at one time -- in a month, Bob called 11 different people
Stupid or Liar.  Or it might have been about that many for each
word (it's been a long time). Do you excuse that as 'human nature'?

I found myself interacting with him a lot because I had sort of taken
on the task of a monitor in the stats groups, and he was prone to
(even) start out, like, "You must be stupid to ask THAT."  This was
from a guy who spent his working life as a college professor who
was not well liked by his students (and there is another story,
there). 


>
>Citation du jour : « Passer pour un idiot aux yeux d'un imbécile est un 
>délice de fin gourmet » - Simenon (ou Courteline, peut-être, formulée 
>autrement ; les sources se contredisent).
>
>> I don't know how much of their problem is created or influenced
>> by the aftermath of their own social ineptness -- a feature
>> have not been discussing. The Usenet autism group once posted
>> a note by a woman who said that her child's kindergarten teacher
>> praised the daughter for her 'maturity' since she never joined in
>> when kids were bullying or hassling. The teacher did not
>> recognize that the daughter was not mature, she simply did not
>> UNDERSTAND why the  bullying was taking place; she did not
>> join in automatically, because she did not fit in.
>> 
>> Aspies are not insulted by the same things neurotypicals
>> consider insulting, so they make social mistakes. They get called
>> Stupid or Liar when they claim they did not UNDERSTAND that
>> someone would (or would not) be offended by something.
>> " - Okay, you insulted my shirt.  My mama picked it out, not me.
>> Why should I be offended?"  Or the Aspie might insult a shirt,
>> while imagining they were offering a trivial observation. [...]
>
>Goodness me! I am learning a lot. (I have Asperger's myself.)

You're welcome?

-- 
Rich Ulrich