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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,us.politics
Subject: Re: kids these days
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:30:48 +0100
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Oh. I just hired one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is a lot of truth in that article.
>>>>>>>>>I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing 
>>>>>>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
>>>>>>>>>One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
>>>>>>>>>and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
>>>>>>>>>a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
>>>>>>>>>with,
>>>>>>>>>build  proto circuits.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
>>>>>>>>>and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
>>>>>>>>>thing), the works.
>>>>>>>>>As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
>>>>>>>>>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
>>>>>>>>>I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
>>>>>>>>>to sync some remote location,
>>>>>>>>>turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
>>>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that?
>>>>>>>>> (Must have missed that :-) ).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It all depends,.
>>>>>>>>>Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
>>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes I did read that posting
>>>>>>>Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
>>>>>>>to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
>>>>>>>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
>>>>>>>value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
>>>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
>>>>>>>for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
>>>>>>>So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
>>>>>>>An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
>>>>>>>And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
>>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal, 
>>>>>>> And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
>>>>>>>And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
>>>>>>>but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
>>>>>>>will change the outcome.
>>>>>>>So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
>>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
>>>>>>>Those would often go high in teefee sets...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
>>>>>>anyway.
>>>>>>The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
>>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
>>>>>we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
>>>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
>>>>>But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
>>>>>
>>>>>Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
>>>>>And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
>>>>>protocols, what not... standarss...
>>>>>
>>>>>And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
>>>>>now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
>>>>>SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
>>>>>
>>>>>US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
>>>>
>>>>What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and
>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society
>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
>>>
>>>Look at China
>>>
>>>
>>>>Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still
>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
>>>
>>>I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
>>>Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
>>>you pay more taxes..
>>>Bad system.
>>>
>>>As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck.
>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
>>>making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
>>>
>>>Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
>>>Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
>>>
>>>Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders.
>>>?
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
>
>Yep, that is the one :-)

Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding
under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to
10 megatons.

>
>
>>I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme
>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
>
>Oops.. 
>Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?

Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved
on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more
addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids
these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even
exist.