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From: John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Heating for fusion, Why toast plasma when you can microwave it?
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 09:35:16 -0700
Organization: highland technology
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On Sat, 10 Aug 2024 06:01:32 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 09 Aug 2024 08:56:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
><esecbj1vp6cf0v0778gt00kut08div9dsm@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Aug 2024 06:38:37 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 9 Aug 2024 02:18:17 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
>>><bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <v92r4h$3fk7$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>>On 8/08/2024 8:23 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 8 Aug 2024 17:13:36 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
>>>>> <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <v91r78$3pjer$3@dont-email.me>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7/08/2024 3:27 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>> Heating for fusion: Why toast plasma when you can microwave it!
>>>>>>>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131216.htm
>>>>>>>     Carving a new path forward for compact fusion vessels
>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>    August 6, 2024
>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>    DOE/Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory
>>>>>>> Summary:
>>>>>>>    Can plasma be sufficiently heated inside a tokamak using only microwaves?
>>>>>>>    New research suggests it can! Eliminating the central ohmic heating coil
>>>>>>>    normally used in tokamaks will free up much-needed space for a more compact,
>>>>>>>    efficient spherical tokamak.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not so much carving a new path as looking for one. Maybe be gyrotrons
>>>>>> can heat the plasma enough, but planing to do experiment which can test
>>>>>> whether they can isn't exactly carving a new path - more just looking at
>>>>>> a possible new path.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bye bye ITER and that otehr fusion attempt mayonaise thing
>>>>>>>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131357.htm
>>>>>>>     Researchers dig deeper into stability challenges of nuclear fusion -- with mayonnaise
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now all I am waiting for is a 10 year old kid doing a better than break even fusion experiment in its parents kitchen...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You may have to wait a long time. Mayonaise may exhibit Rayleigh-Taylor
>>>>>> instability, but the lessons it might be able to impart would be
>>>>>> difficult to translate into totomak design.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I like that Farnsworth fusor thing
>>>>
>>>>Of course you do. You are too dim to notice that it can't generate 
>>>>enough energy to be a useful energy source - though it can be a handy 
>>>>source of neutrons if you need them.
>>>>
>>>>This spelled out if the link you posted, but clearly didn't read.
>>>>
>>>>> They mention the grid gets too hot as a problem.
>>>>> Why not use a water filled pipe as grid,
>>>>> heat the water to steam, drive a small steam engine
>>>>> that drives a generator that drives a HV converter,
>>>>> simple electronics, there is a table top experiment.
>>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
>>>>>    so many simple ways to improve that setup!
>>>>
>>>>But none are going to make it an energy source.
>>>
>>>Yea, and planes could never fly as those were heavier than air.
>>>There are solutions, some are simple.
>>>I have been posting about that Farnsworth fusor many times, but your amnesia must have gotten to you again.
>>>
>>>What will never produce energy is the large political job creation projects for albert onestone parrots like ITER is.
>>>Or that laser fusion crap in 'merrica.
>>
>>NIF is really about nuclear weapons, but the over-unity energy yield
>>is interesting.
>
>Yes, but theequipment ises a zillio times more energy that is produced...
>>>
>>>Same for anti-gravity.
>>>
>>>This is fun info too, previous thing you did not graps:
>>> Carvings at ancient monument may be world's oldest calendars
>>>  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240806131238.htm
>>>  comets causing glowball cooling?
>>>
>>>As to solder, when was the last time your front limbs held a sodering iron?
>>
>>Good question!
>
>Yea, had not touched it in several days myself .. was repairing a watch...
>need better tools, but it works again..
>We are in for some nice hot days here, 35 degrees C here predicted for Monday.
>95 F?


We're up in the mountains, in Truckee, and I'm not soldering here
either. It's hit 92F during the day but it's cold at night. Well, 92
above an asphalt road; it's cooler in the woods. It's dry so doesn't
feel very hot. We get occasional wafts of smoke, from the usual
California forest fires. We had a bear stroll down the street
yesterday.

I have a new intern starting soon, and there's so much to teach him,
including soldering.

>
>As to that fusor, some old electron guns from color CRTs.. good focal point, 35 kV should be no problem
>need a good lab and mechanical man.
>Maybe some electron guns from old film scanner CRTs, those used even higher voltages.
>electrons; more basic and simpler than light.
>Farnsworth was a genius.
>

Yes. He was a mostly unlearned farm boy who invented electronic
television near here, on Green Street.

https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/cal0941.asp

It's not hard to build a particle accelerator to get some fusion, but
it's not efficient.