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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: polcott333 <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Computable Functions --- finite string transformation rules Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 22:22:26 -0500 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <40b048f71fe2ed2a8ef11d2d587c765c8fcbc977@i2pn2.org> References: <vsnchj$23nrb$2@dont-email.me> <vtbe3g$1vs00$1@dont-email.me> <852f89c9196e0261b8156050fea4572fe886933f@i2pn2.org> <vth52t$3in23$9@dont-email.me> <vth557$3a127$7@dont-email.me> <vth8lr$3n2du$2@dont-email.me> <a8ab995b650b894cbfb635478f7406c4eee4d187@i2pn2.org> <vthqtc$5g2e$2@dont-email.me> <63af93cb608258cc3e12b9bab3a2efa0b7ee7eee@i2pn2.org> <vtit6a$15e5s$3@dont-email.me> <vtivmo$19aqd$1@dont-email.me> <vtkc4l$2h48g$3@dont-email.me> <vtkdnm$2iqu5$1@dont-email.me> <vtkkge$2si58$2@dont-email.me> <vtl56j$3aajg$1@dont-email.me> <vtlu0a$3vgp0$1@dont-email.me> <vtm04f$2a90$1@dont-email.me> <vtm9q8$aut7$1@dont-email.me> <vtmah8$2a90$2@dont-email.me> <vtmgen$gs48$1@dont-email.me> <c2ad5086dba36124c070173c3e3252967df2fab9@i2pn2.org> <vu8g3q$v0qa$1@dont-email.me> <vu8lse$vn9b$1@dont-email.me> <vu8og4$13jl5$7@dont-email.me> <6d9ae3ac08bbbe4407fc3612441fc2032f949a3d@i2pn2.org> <vub168$3clpn$2@dont-email.me> <7ac75991b443ba53d52960ddb1932524dea8e03f@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 03:22:26 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1627113"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="9LCUHxZCLnrJRrQxsMEzj+5qGgOKLK1eZsSHPqB9o1c"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250423-4, 4/23/2025), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 In-Reply-To: <7ac75991b443ba53d52960ddb1932524dea8e03f@i2pn2.org> Bytes: 4389 Lines: 64 On 4/23/2025 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 4/23/25 11:32 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 4/23/2025 6:25 AM, joes wrote: >>> Am Tue, 22 Apr 2025 13:51:48 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>> On 4/22/2025 1:07 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 22.apr.2025 om 18:28 schreef olcott: >>>>>> On 4/22/2025 7:57 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>> Am Tue, 15 Apr 2025 15:44:06 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>> >>>>>>>> You continue to stupidly insist that int sum(int x, int y) >>>>>>>> {return x >>>>>>>> + y; } >>>>>>>> returns 7 for sum(3,2) because you incorrectly understand how these >>>>>>>> things fundamentally work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is stupidly wrong to expect HHH(DD) report on the direct >>>>>>>> execution of DD when you are not telling it one damn thing about >>>>>>>> this direct execution. >>>>>>> What else is it missing that the processor uses to execute it? >>>>>>> >>>>>> libx86emu <is> a correct x86 processor and does emulate its inputs >>>>>> correctly. >>>>> >>>>> The key thing here is that Olcott consistently does not understand >>>>> that >>>>> HHH is given a finite string input that according to the semantics of >>>>> the x86 language specifies a halting program, >>>> >>>> That is stupidly incorrect. >>> No, DD halts (when executed directly). HHH is not a halt decider, not >>> even >>> for DD only. >>> >>>> People here stupidly assume that the outputs are not required to >>>> correspond to the inputs. >>> But the direct execution of DD is computable from its description. >>> >> >> Not as an input to HHH. > > But neither the "direct execution" or the "simulation by HHH" are > "inputs" to HHH. What is the input is the representation of the program > to be decided on. > >> When HHH computes halting for DD is is only allowed >> to apply the finite string transformations specified >> by the x86 language to the machine code of DD. > > It is only ABLE to apply them. > The input to HHH(DD) does specify the recursive emulation of DD including HHH emulating itself emulating DD when one applies the finite string transformation rules of the x86 language to THE INPUT to HHH(DD). You can't pop any other execution trace from the input to HHH(DD) than that. -- Copyright 2024 polcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer