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From: -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: The trip to France, Germany and Switzerland
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2024 22:18:17 -0400
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Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/7/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote:
>> On 9/6/24 1:07 PM, -hh wrote:
>>> On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>> On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
>>>>> On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>>>>> To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That happens.  On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both 
>>>>>>> caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was 
>>>>>>> unpleasant.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. 
>>>>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the 
>>>>>>>> train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us 
>>>>>>>> as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before 
>>>>>>> considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower 
>>>>>>> physical shape.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other 
>>>>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are 
>>>>>>>> not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We 
>>>>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by 
>>>>>>>> the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan 
>>>>>>> taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor 
>>>>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another 
>>>>>>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed 
>>>>>>>> and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery 
>>>>>>>> we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, 
>>>>>>>> visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A 
>>>>>>>> WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the 
>>>>>>>> part of Moselle valley we saw.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel 
>>>>>>> crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall 
>>>>>>> correctly.  I understand that the river looks somewhat different 
>>>>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the 
>>>>>>> decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water 
>>>>>>> levels too).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as 
>>>>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises 
>>>>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a 
>>>>>>>> "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the 
>>>>>>>> food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a 
>>>>>>>> few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to 
>>>>>>>> assist one with translating the excellent French of a local 
>>>>>>>> vineyard owner.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but 
>>>>>>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways.  One 
>>>>>>> trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY 
>>>>>>> laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines 
>>>>>>> & wine stewards at dinner.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an 
>>>>>>>> unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues 
>>>>>>>> for the schedule.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very 
>>>>>>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that 
>>>>>>>> city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride 
>>>>>>>> thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back 
>>>>>>> to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for 
>>>>>>> Rösti.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of 
>>>>>>>> the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our 
>>>>>>>> dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was 
>>>>>>>> announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram 
>>>>>>>> and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the 
>>>>>>>> passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how 
>>>>>>>> to get to our destination. We followed their instructions and 
>>>>>>>> arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have 
>>>>>>>> figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Things like that happen.  Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed 
>>>>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight.  Have had 
>>>>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience 
>>>>>>>> the 787 for the first time too.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 
>>>>>>> version.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via 
>>>>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we 
>>>>>>>> have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not 
>>>>>>>> an issue for them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well: 
>>>>>>> several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, 
>>>>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of 
>>>>>>> Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to 
>>>>>>> Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its 
>>>>>>> old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit.  A single 
>>>>>>> overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due 
>>>>>>> south of Paris.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk 
>>>>>>> of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, 
>>>>>>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -hh
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small 
>>>>>> snack bar on the ground floor.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. 
>>>>>> But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My 
>>>>>> take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a 
>>>>>> port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller 
>>>>>> places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small 
>>>>>> music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were 
>>>>>> better and we had more free time in port.
>>>>> 
>>>>> FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the 
>>>>> ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my 
>>>>>> mind a bit about next year. 
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8
>>>>> 
>>>>> [rearraging]
>>>>> 
>>>>>> We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in 
>>>>> Paris
>>>>>> plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
>>>>>> Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are 
>>>>> utterly unaware of.  There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons 
>>>>> someplace that I can't recall at the moment.  I think I could easily 
>>>>> do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could 
>>>>>> be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
>>>>> 
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