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From: clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Relativism Killer
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2025 18:25:46 +0000
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2025 9:41:17 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

> Den 12.07.2025 05:55, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
>> On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 11:02:58 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
>>
>>> Den 11.07.2025 08:06, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
>>>> "Relativism Killer: The Collapse of Conceptual Relativity at the
>>>> Speed Limit"
>>>> Rub´en Yruretagoyena Conde
>>>
>>> Why do you not give a link to the paper?
>>>
>>> https://vixra.org/pdf/2507.0037v1.pdf
>>>> "Abstract
>>>> This article introduces a conceptual function named relativism killer(),
>>>> which demonstrates how the framework of relativity ceases to hold
>>>> coherence once a fundamental maximum is defined. We explore the
>>>> paradoxical boundary where relativistic logic collapses under its own
>>>> limit: the speed of light. At this precise threshold, the relative
>>>> becomes absolute, and the structure of reference frames disintegrates.
>>>> We introduce the concept of an ontological observer the definitional
>>>> entity, which reveals why the condition x = 1 terminates relativity.
>>>> This argument serves both as a philosophical reflection and as a
>>>> structural clarification of Einstein’s prediction, stripped of
>>>> assumptions and exposed as a necessary geometrical condition. It also
>>>> supports post relativistic models such as the Hijolum´ınic Theory."
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you read the paper?
>>>
>>> Quote of the first statement in the Introduction:
>>> "Relativity, as introduced by Einstein, is based on the notion
>>>   that measurements of space and time are relative to the motion
>>>   of observers."
>>>
>>> Do I have to explain why this is nonsense?
>>> I do? OK:
>>>
>>> A correct, but trivial statement would be:
>>> "Physics is based on the notion that measurements of space
>>>   and time are relative to the observer."
>>>
>>> The measurements made by an observer are obviously relative
>>> to himself. The speed of an object measured by the observer
>>> is relative to the observer.
>>> To say:
>>> "The speed of an object measured by the observer is relative
>>>   to the motion of the observer."
>>> is a meaningless statement. Which "motion"?
>>>
>>> The author is very confused about what "relativity" is,
>>> and when the very first statement in the paper is meaningless,
>>> the rest is bound to be nonsense.
>>>
>>> Another quote:
>>> "5. Philosophical Reflection: The Death of the Observer
>>>    The observer, within relativity, is always external.
>>>    But at the speed of light, there is no outside.
>>>    The act of observation merges with the act of being.
>>>    Thus, relativism killer(1) does not just signify a broken
>>>    formula, but a shift in ontological perspective I dare to say.
>>>    It is where duality ends, and unity begins."
>>>
>>> I will leave to you to figure out why this is nonsense.
>>>
>
>> According to relativity the relative speed of light does not include the
>> relative speed of the observer so the observer finds the speed of light
>> relative to him to be C even if he is moving towards or away from the
>> source. This is not true of either particles or waves and is so
>> illogical as to be irrational and utterly stupid.
>
> The statement:
> "the relative speed of light does not include the
>   relative speed of the observer"
> is as meaningless as Conde's statement quoted above.
> Same confusion!
>
> The "speed of light" is the speed measured by an observer,
> it is the speed relative to the observer.
> So how do you imagine that the speed relative to the observer
> could "include the speed of the observer"?
> What "speed of the observer" are you referring to?
>
> The point is that it is experimentally confirmed that all
> observers will measure the same speed of light, even when
> the observers are moving relative to each other.
>
> That means that the speed of light is invariant, the same
> in all frames of reference.
> Or as you put it: "the observer finds the speed of light
> relative to him to be c even if he is moving towards
> or away from the source." (the second postulate of SR).
>
> Experimental evidence trumps your opinion which
> probably is that the speed of light is c only in
> the rest frame of the source.
>
> (I suppose that what you meant by your meaningless statement
>   was something like:
>   "According to relativity the measured speed of light does not
>    include the speed of the source relative to the observer.")
To say that the relative speed of sound between source and (walking)
observer is not S ±3 mph is a meaningfully false statement. The speed
measured by the observer includes his speed relative to the source. All
observers will not measure the same speed of sound because they are
moving at different speeds relative to the source. Same for light. The
speed of the (walking) observer is a speed within the frame of
reference. It is false to claim the speed is not composite or that the
experimental measurements do not confirm this. The observer finds the
speed of light to be C ± 3 mph, so the second postulate is false. The
speed of light includes the speed of the observer. That is detected as a
change in frequency. You are denying that the frequency would be
affected, and that is stupid and irrational nonsense (relativity's
second postulate).