Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.strips,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Pearls Before Swine: Rat The Luddite
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:07:39 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <4767bjtvgnaqrgg8sb0uaun8uk24tfhdd0@4ax.com>
References: <v8s4e1$1bfga$2@dont-email.me> <v8s8j4$1cbov$1@dont-email.me> <nr24bjdet72ak69sfl5063e5adslm32o4u@4ax.com> <h4h4bjhl38jiaglplpggml4nhtt89odnpp@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Injection-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:07:43 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c68665f033c6b56e222390e70dfe0694";
	logging-data="3360867"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18E9+bSBpPHj09k3qcO+l7HMlhUIxQePc8="
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
Cancel-Lock: sha1:BTdVD/wL9XhCbpiiN/qLXJInrsI=
Bytes: 5314

On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 08:51:17 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 21:40:02 +1000, Mad Hamish
><newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 16:25:08 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 2024-08-06 03:14:09 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said:
>>>> On 7/7/24 05:38, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-07-07, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> LED bulbs are largely a scam for bulb makers to stuff more money =
into
>>>>>> their pockets.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Here's some realistic numbers:  I replace a 40 W incandescent bulb
>>>>> with a LED one.  Aldi middle isle, 2 euros.  Residental power is
>>>>> about 0.40 euros/kWh here, so the bulb will have paid for itself =
once
>>>>> it has saved 2/0.40 =3D 5 kWh.  It produces the same illumination =
at
>>>>> 1/10 of the power of the incandescent, so it saves 40 - 40/10 =3D =
36 W.
>>>>> 5000 Wh / 36 W =3D 140 h, so if used one hour each day, it will =
have
>>>>> paid for itself in under five months.  If it eventually dies after
>>>>> 10,000 hours instead of a promised 30,000, so be it.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> You can plug in numbers that are applicable to your situation and
>>>>> in your part of the world.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> 	That is theoretical saving. Down at the Power Company the
>>>> receipts are down due to power saving so to pay for maintenance
>>>> and emergency repair service they must raise the price of your
>>>> power. This is what happened in California at least in the
>>>> San Francisco Bay Area and the Pacific Gas and Electric Company
>>>> is now mainly a power distribution company and they are putting
>>>> lines under ground now in sensitive areas which we are helping
>>>> to pay for.  As well as Battery Farms to save all the wind & solar
>>>> power generated while the sun is shining and wind is blowing for
>>>> those times we call night.
>>>> 	And if stops some wild fires in sensitive areas
>>>> then it will be worth the additional cost because the day
>>>> after the sky turns red with smoke it comes down to where
>>>> we must breath.
>>>>=20
>>>> 	bliss
>>>
>>>Yep. and none of that new greeny nonsense, including LED bulbs, are=20
>>>actually any better for the environment than the old versions anyway.=20
>>>So it's simply a waste of money "look good" promotional exercise.
>>>
>>No doubt you actualy have figures to prove that assertion is
>>correct...
>
>It has been noted here already that the power saved by LCDs/LEDs is
>power made available for other uses (bitcoin mining and, I should
>think, EV charging and even heat pumps) so a lot of the power "saved"
>isn't saved at all, just repurposed.
>
>However, LEDs have the advantage over LCDs of being disposable in the
>landfill (ie, put in the trash as opposed to having to be dropped off
>at special locations) when they stop working. Well, if that /is/ an
>advantage, of course. And both have the advantage over incandescents
>that they work a lot longer.
>
>As to utility rates and improvements -- you get what you pay for.
>
>That's an /optimistic/ statement, of course.
>
>But it is true that only thieves try to get without paying.

The responses suggest some followup:

the local official website
<https://www.seattle.gov/utilities/your-services/collection-and-disposal/=
where-does-it-go#/item/light-bulbs>
explains:

=46luorescent tubes and CFLs are banned from the garbage because they
contain mercury, which is highly toxic.=20

It also lists the bulbs that can go into the garbage:

Incandecent, LED, Halogen, LED commercial downlights and Xenon light
bulbs

Apparently, LEDs etc have no mercury.

CFLs can be picked up for $5 ("Limit: two 1-gallon bags per collection
for single family residence"), or taken to a special location for free
(up to 10) recycling (the latter includes tubes).

Nothing about CFLs being "electronics", which also have special
rules/locations/pickups. But whatever works.
--=20
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"