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From: hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math
Subject: Re: Humans can't observe time. Even less, the pass of time. Science is an
 illusion.
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 01:03:09 +0000
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On Thu, 24 Apr 2025 0:03:16 +0000, gharnagel wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 21:08:06 +0000, Physfitfreak wrote:
>>
>> On 4/23/25 3:44 PM, rhertz wrote:
>>>
>>> Space is what allows matter to exist,
>
> That's not a definition of space. that's an excuse for matter to exist.
>
>> Wait wait wait.. Talk about space without introducing any other physical
>> quantity in it. Don't cheat!
>
> Indeed!
>
>> Assume nothing else exists but space. Then say what space is.
>
> Exactly!  What is SPACE?
>
> I've been reading an old book (1999) by Brian Green, "The Elegant
> Universe" where he was preaching string theory.  I'm reading about
> Calabi-Yau spaces.  Admittedly, these would be models of reality
> at best, but I got to thinking: WHAT are they modeling?  And that
> led me to think about zero point fields.  We usually mean virtual
> electron-positron sea, but there's a sea of each and every virtual
> particle pair.  And then Hertz asks the question: what is space?
> Space is filled with these virtual particle pairs.  So the question
> is: which came first?


You don't need to descend to esoteric, unproven and barely new
Gobbledygook
that emerged from quantum physics a century ago.

You don't need to descend to esoteric, unproven and barely new
Gobbledygook
that emerged from cosmology a century ago.

You don't even need to resort to historical philosophical arguments that
emerged from astronomy about five centuries ago.


You have to ask yourself THIS: What is space FOR WHOM? For humans or any
other of the millions of specie that inhabit Earth (not counting other
places).

From the perspective of an ordinary and sane human (not a one
eye-blinded), space
IS A PERCEPTION that develops spontaneously since the time of
conception.

As we grow, we LEARN TO ACCEPT that space is defined by myself and my
surroundings.
This PERCEPTION of volume, depth, length and height IS ENRICHED BY WITH
OUR EXPERIENCE WITH OUR SURROUNDINGS. Space perception evolves year
after year since birth, until we reach mental maturity to accept that IT
EXISTS because we can move through it with increasing security and
accuracy.

At a given age, when being a child, the question of what allow the
concept of space emerges naturally: we feel compelled to measure
distances, heights, etc. Then, through the modern education system, we
learn that we can measure space in many forms, through the use of
Cartesian coordinates, which is the mathematical and abstract
representation of what WE PERCEIVE: left-right, up-down,
forward-backwards.

And then we are done. If we pursuit a technical career or a hobby that
involves measurements of space, we are naturally wired to accept even
extremely accurate measurements of the xyz representation of space.


To fully understand the above, we should ask what is the perception of
space for other specie, like dogs, birds, cats, cows, whales, salmons,
etc.

To pretend that our DIFFERENT EXPLANATIONS about what space is,
depending on our
professional career, are smart and valid, is STUPID, because the sense
of space is completely dependent on our VISUAL SYSTEM. If you are born
blind, you can't get the
slightest idea of space, unless you are a genius and was able to develop
such concept within your head, independently that you depend ON YOUR
MEMORY to recall in which way (and using our AUDITORY SYSTEM for
references and stability) you have to move using any algorithm that you
develop by yourself (counting paces, using a baton, etc.).

So, any definition of space suits for different organisms. The problem
is that only a minuscule percentage of these organisms care to use space
to measure dimensions. And that an even more minuscule percentage of
those are IDIOTS ENOUGH to accept that motion affect dimensions of space
or, worse, that gravity do that.