Path: ...!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 22:22:28 +0000
From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Expedition to Europa
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 18:22:27 -0400
Message-ID: <50218j16hsr1eld7etd48el006jibarams@4ax.com>
References: <63br7jpf7le468rnljlfhaol4432dt70lq@4ax.com> <v5kkt2$2trbe$1@dont-email.me> <667f96cb$0$2873004$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <v5opnn$3smua$1@dont-email.me> <b0a08jlmoclncnbr117q6urlto7nckji27@4ax.com> <c9k08j5ul55so54bsofdbm86688lmerhgi@4ax.com> <tjv08j57vt49i92ijpi6poa1954ue7oug3@4ax.com> <92018j574uvccf1r14g9tpaj1osktf7i2g@4ax.com>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 91
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-cjCuP2qiKU+cFfySnurdyTdpjuJBpmAkLwREQ6J8Yo2QUVCZrsQepf5ZCoLlcFN3+H4Tu4k7t3TzR10!h2nFmERWfN2eZ/67yY7sPllYlDlv1Ivj7K8sU7fGlEkWZPojBDX2cKlufY47+r6Uv4u7fz0=
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 5017

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 14:45:26 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 17:41:14 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:26:56 -0700, john larkin
>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:35:47 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:04:11 -0700, Don Y
>>>><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 6/28/2024 10:08 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/27/2024 5:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Most big librarys carry AW.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .<https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it turns out that there is life in the ocean of Europa, which has
>>>>>>>> existed for something like four billion years, it supports the general
>>>>>>>> idea of "random but inevitable" theories of Abiogenesis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _Remembrance of Earth's Past_ has an interesting take on the whole
>>>>>>> notion behind an "empty" universe.  It's a tedious read (mainly for
>>>>>>> me coming from a non-chinese culture... just keeping track of the
>>>>>>> characters is difficult) but has some good ideas to chew on at its core.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My guess: The Universe is mammoth, the technological and energy requirements of 
>>>>>> even short-distance interstellar travel are immense, the lifespan of 
>>>>>> technological civilizations is highly time-limited before such a civilization 
>>>>>> destroys itself, technological civilizations are very rare to begin with, and 
>>>>>> no technological civilization ever survives long enough to attempt it.
>>>>>
>>>>>That wouldn't explain why there are no *signs* of intelligent life.
>>>>>
>>>>>*We* can't (yet) travel interstellar distances in single lifetimes
>>>>>but I'm sure anyone with technology comparable to ours would be able to
>>>>>*detect* our presence (given that we seem to make no attempt at "hiding")
>>>>>
>>>>>_If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens ... WHERE IS EVERYBODY?_ gives some
>>>>>interesting takes on the Fermi paradox.
>>>>
>>>>That's a bit self-important.  
>>>>
>>>>If the universe is teaming with life, but alien civilizations capable
>>>>of interstellar travel are exceedingly rare, there would be little
>>>>reason for those spacefaring aliens to visit any but the other
>>>>advanced alien civilizations.  
>>>>
>>>>We might get the equivalent of an anthropologist ever few million
>>>>year, and they would do whatever needed to prevent detection by that
>>>>which they study.
>>>>
>>>>Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>>An intelligent alien lifeform is probably thousands of light-years
>>>away. Unless they have a Warp Drive, there's no way they would want to
>>>visit us.
>>
>>The claim being made was that because we were not seeing any
>>intelligent aliens, they must not exist, or are very rare.  Which does
>>not follow.
>>
>>
>>>A very advanced robot might.
>>
>>Even if they do have warp drives, they may still send a robot.
>>
>>But given the technological gulf between Earthlings and any
>>civilization possessing any warp drive, we won't detect them unless
>>they want us to.
>>
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
>I think that life on Earth is someone's high school science project.

We would have no way to tell for sure.  

I recall a Star Trek (?) episode what that was almost exactly what was
happening - I recall that this powerful being was about to turn half
the matter in the Sun into antimatter, which explosion would be a
sight to behold - from a very great distance.  This was averted when
the powerful being's parents appeared and scolded their Child for
playing with predators or the like.

Joe Gwinn