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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc Subject: Re: The joy of FORTRAN Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2024 17:52:05 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 49 Message-ID: <519672220.749089258.727572.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> References: <pan$96411$d204da43$cc34bb91$1fe98651@linux.rocks> <5mqdnZuGq4lgwm_7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <vcub5c$36h63$1@dont-email.me> <1r0e6u9.1tubjrt1kapeluN%snipeco.2@gmail.com> <vcuib9$37rge$5@dont-email.me> <6tDIO.25202$afc4.3071@fx42.iad> <vcva2s$3bcrt$6@dont-email.me> <vd0tsi$3lgc3$6@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2024 02:52:05 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="34c7d93a0541d4d7e103751ad66bbb98"; logging-data="466478"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18WXuPqZpj8oP9nGFrNwEVv" User-Agent: NewsTap/5.3.1 (iPad) Cancel-Lock: sha1:EZ+FWN2+JVEqNVQip1NvaQGU44E= sha1:vVYihBvY22CwXtUErE4XpUj3bUw= Bytes: 3447 Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties: > >> On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 18:24:02 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> At the risk of planting flame bait <nudge, nudge>, here in North America >>> Algol was generally considered the domain of computer science weenies, >>> while FORTRAN and COBOL were used for applications in the Real World >>> [tm] (science/engineering and business, respectively). >> >> It didn’t help that Algol-60 had nothing resembling standardized I/O >> facilities, whereas these were an integral feature of both Fortran and >> COBOL. >> >> This was remedied later in Algol-68, at the cost of adding a lot of >> complexity. >> >> This was in the days before POSIX, of course, when every computer system >> seemed to do I/O entirely differently. Most of those, um, idiosyncrasies, >> have thankfully evaporated. >> >>> So does PL/I (or is it PL/1 this week?), which allowed data structures >>> to be declared COBOL-style. >> >> PL/I was IBM’s attempt at a Grand Unification of both “business” and >> “scientific” programming in one language. If you thought C++ programming >> was full of surprises when your program did unexpected things, PL/I >> invented the whole genre of “surprise-ridden programming language”. > > My C++ programs NEVER exhibit surprise! (Well, almost never :-D) > > I did a little bit of Algol the first couple years of college, using an > acoustic modem to access some mainframe in Kansas City. > > Then they got a PDP machine, and I learned how to use RUNOFF. Typing in ALL > CAPS. > > Did a fair amount of FORTRAN, too, include programming a lab system to run > experiments, in grad school. > PL/I can surprise you because the language is so powerful. A lot of things that other languages can’t do are handled by PL/I, but if you’re not aware of the rules for stuff like data conversion the results might not be what you expect. I still get bitten occasionally, and am left scratching my head. -- Pete