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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Halting Problem: What Constitutes Pathological Input
Date: Wed, 7 May 2025 22:14:38 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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In-Reply-To: <vvg8gq$15e69$3@dont-email.me>

On 5/7/25 2:24 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 5:58 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/6/25 10:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2025 5:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 5/6/25 2:05 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/6/2025 5:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:59 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 7:49 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which starts with the assumption that an algorithm exists that 
>>>>>>>>>> performs the following mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that 
>>>>>>>>>> computes the following mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed 
>>>>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when 
>>>>>>>>>> executed directly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DO COMPUTE THAT THE INPUT IS NON-HALTING
>>>>>>>>>>> IFF (if and only if) the mapping FROM INPUTS
>>>>>>>>>>> IS COMPUTED.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i.e. it is found to map something other than the above 
>>>>>>>>>> function which is a contradiction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The above function VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE.
>>>>>>>>> You make no attempt to show how my claim
>>>>>>>>> THAT IT VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE IS INCORRECT
>>>>>>>>> you simply take that same quote from a computer
>>>>>>>>> science textbook as the infallible word-of-God.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing that you don't understand proof by 
>>>>>>>> contradiction, 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all. The COMPUTER SCIENCE of your requirements IS WRONG!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, YOU don't understand what Computer Science actually is talking 
>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Every function computed by a model of computation
>>>>> must apply a specific sequence of steps that are
>>>>> specified by the model to the actual finite string
>>>>> input.
>>>>
>>>> Right, "Computed by a model of computation", that
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> HHH(DD) must emulate DD according to the rules
>>>>> of the x86 language.
>>>>
>>>> Right, which is doesn't do.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, your HHH stop processing at a CALL HHH instruction.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
>>>      *input D* until H correctly determines that its simulated D
>>>      *would never stop running unless aborted* then
>>>
>>> *input D* // the actual input
>>
>> Which calls the original H
>>
>>>
>>> *would never stop running unless aborted*
>>> // A hypothetical HHH/DD pair where HHH and DD are
>>> // exactly the same except that this HHH does not abort.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, your hypothetical HHH (like  your HHH1) paired with the originl DD 
>> which uses the original HHH.
>>
> 
> That is NOT what this means:
> *simulated D would never stop running unless aborted*

Right, CORRECTLY SIMULATED D would never stop running unless aborted, as 
that is the only type of simulation that shows behavior.

And D is, and only is, the program that we started with as the input, 
which calls the original H, and only that H.

Where do you ee

> 
> All simulating halt deciders must
> PREDICT WHAT THE BEHAVIOR WOULD BE
> and thus cannot simply wait and see
> what the behavior is.

Right, to be correct, they need to do that, but they can't.

> 
> If they don't analyze what
> 
> the behavior of the input WOULD BE if
> they did not abort their simulation

But that is what they must do to be correct.

> 
> they would get stuck and never halt.
> Simulating halt decider must PREDICT BEHAVIOR.
> 

Right, which is why they have problems, and are not correct.

Your logic is just demonstrating that you are admitting that you logic 
insists that it is ok to lie about the correct answer and be wrong, but 
still claim to be right.

That concept is what has made you into the pathological liar you are. 
You have erased the definition of truth from your mind, by convincing 
yourself that it must be ok to lie so you can claim to do what is 
actually impossible.

This is what makes you utterly stupid.