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From: mpsilvertone@yahoo.com (HarryLime)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: I Met A Girl / Will Dockery
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 05:24:13 +0000
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On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 3:47:35 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

> On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 20:17:40 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>> On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 17:56:44 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 7 Feb 2025 15:23:14 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>> HarryLime wrote:
>>>>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I Met A Girl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I met a girl
>>>>>>>>> she came from California.
>>>>>>>>> It was in a dream
>>>>>>>>> we knew each other instantly.
>>>>>>>>> She was a little freckled girl
>>>>>>>>> from out of
>>>>>>>>> my high school past.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And she looked up at me
>>>>>>>>> and talked real spacey.
>>>>>>>>> I've forgotten her name
>>>>>>>>> though she told it to me twice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We talked
>>>>>>>>> a really detached situation.
>>>>>>>>> She said years ago
>>>>>>>>> I was so shy
>>>>>>>>> she thought I was gay.
>>>>>>>>> At this point I kissed her
>>>>>>>>> and put my finger to her hole.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And she looked up at me
>>>>>>>>> and talked real spacey.
>>>>>>>>> I have forgotten her name
>>>>>>>>> though she told it to me twice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know why it was
>>>>>>>>> that I would think of her.
>>>>>>>>> I made a couple of puns
>>>>>>>>> about her name that made me blush.
>>>>>>>>> But her softness in tone
>>>>>>>>> made me feel all right.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All I want to do
>>>>>>>>> is get in contact.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Will Dockery / May 8 1982
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good to see....
>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks again, as I was telling Mummy Chunk, in 1982 when writing these
>>>>>>> poems I
>>>>>>> was highly influenced by 1950s Beat poets and 1980s punk rockers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So please excuse the foul language.
>>>>
>>>> Referring to a woman's vagina as a "hole" is considered both offensive
>>>> and misogynistic
>>>
>>> That's why I apologized for the foul language in the poem.
>>
>> But the *language* (the word "hole") isn't offensive
>
> In context it could be to some readers.

In context of the poem, it is most definitely offensive.

However, it is offensive for the reasons that I pointed out above.  The
word in and of itself is not offensive.

Words have very specific meanings, Will.

You need to learn how to use them correctly.

When you use a word that doesn't quite mean what you think it means, you
end up saying something that isn't true... or that isn't what you'd
intended to express.

"Hole" is not an example of "foul language."

Your use of "hole" in the poem is extremely offensive.  But that doesn't
make it "foul language."

Foul language is offensive by definition.  However, not everything that
is offensive is considered foul language.

IOW the words "foul language" and "offensive language" are not the same
thing.

If I call you a fat, stupid redneck, I am using language to offend you. 
"Fat," "stupid," and "redneck" can all be seen as offensive words in
this context.

However, "fat," "stupid," and "redneck" are not examples of "foul
language."

Neither is "hole."

It isn't difficult to learn how to use language correctly.  But you
aren't going to learn it by simply picking it up from experience.  When
you read a word in an article, a book, or a Usenet post, you can figure
out its meaning from its context.  However, this method only provides
you with an approximation of the word's meaning at best.

The fact that you have learned everything you know about writing from
this method is obvious from your posts.  Apologizing for having used
"foul language" is *close* to being correct.  That is to say, it's close
enough that others can figure out what you actually mean without much
difficulty.

And while this sort of thing is acceptable in casual, spoken
conversations, it is not acceptable when writing literary works, or
conversing with other writers online.

If you want to be a writer, you need to learn how to write.

If you want people to take you seriously in Usenet and other social
media platforms, you need to learn how to write.

And the only way that you're going to learn how to write is by enrolling
in a series of online courses.

--