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From: "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Which uses less power
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 22:40:05 +0200
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On 2024-10-23 19:21, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>
>>> Do you to refute?
>>
>> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)
> 
> Me, too.  I'd like to know the basis for both claims.  Alas, there are
> so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
> employed that the results are unpredictable.
> 
> BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive.  Batteries in
> BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the
> battery in a phone.  But that's for BLE devices.  Unless you turn it
> off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode?  No, not
> when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone
> will go into sleep mode.

Low power BT does not transmits during silence, AFAIK.

> 
> My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on
> the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in
> the phone to a BLE device.  BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal,
> but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes
> assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode.
>  From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not
> in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices).
> 
> Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device,
> but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find:
> 
> https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery
> 
> The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his
> articles is cited.  Might be this guy:
> 
> https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/
> 
> Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth".  Not which version of it.  He
> didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it
> supports.  We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either.

Someone mentioned an app to measure power drain.


> 
> Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more
> when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf.  Be interesting to know if loss
> of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the
> natural drain of the phone's battery.
> 
> Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is
> consuming power.  The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio
> protocol stack.  There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone
> to the BT device.  Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to
> keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no
> traffic is being sent to the endpoints.
> 
> https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison
> 
> That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT
> consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference.  Again, we don't know which BT
> is involved for the OP.  It also mentions packets are sent in bursts
> using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the
> phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts).
> 
> So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE
> device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are
> several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the
> speaker.  Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the
> phone's battery.  While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for
> output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100%
> efficient), but again affected by the volume level.  However, who
> listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to
> play at low volume?  Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to
> produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the
> speaker in the phone.  Heavy bass uses more power.  More energy to push
> the cone further.  Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a
> lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same
> volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker.  Headphones
> are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not
> have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones
> or ear buds.  The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger
> mass.  Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the
> speaker(s).
> 
> Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average,
> but the variables above can produce varying results.  Meanwhile the BLE
> radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more
> than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are
> the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over
> the time the BLE device is active.  There are no bursts with traditional
> BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more
> power than the internal speaker.
> 
> Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone?  One.  So forget about
> stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality.  With
> headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo.

No, my phone does have stereo speakers, but you have to turn it 90 
degrees (to horizontal).

> 
> As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to
> compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the
> BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption.  Play the same media
> for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal
> speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset.
> A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE
> is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design.  Start with a
> fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on
> the battery even when idle.  The OP needs to determine how his
> unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE
> headset.  There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.