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From: mpsilvertone@yahoo.com (HarryLime)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: The Psycho-epistemolgy of MMP
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2025 17:31:44 +0000
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On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:57:53 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 5:55:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 2:28:41 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:58:37 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:45:51 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 4:07:04 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> moved from
>>>>>> https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=254114&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#254114
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 0:20:56 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's Michael Pendragon, always the Peter Keating styled second hander.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Essentially we're in agreement; but I have to raise two non-essential
>>>>>> points of disagreement. First, I would rather not refer to the subject
>>>>>> as "Pendragon." The subject's real name is unknown; "Michael Pendragon"
>>>>>> is just one of his socks, albeit the most prolific one. I would prefer
>>>>>> to refer to him as "MMP" (which doesn't mean you have to, of course, if
>>>>>> you disagree).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Second, I don't think that Peter Keating is the best 'type' to describe
>>>>>> MMP in the novel. Both Keating and MMP are social metaphysicians - they
>>>>>> think that reality is whatever people believe it is, the "consensus"
>>>>>> view of reality. But so do half the novel. Where those two are different
>>>>>> is that Keating is content to follow the consensus, while MMP believes
>>>>>> he can actually control reality by controlling others' beliefs. That
>>>>>> makes him more like two of Rand's other protagonists from that novel,
>>>>>> Gail Wynand and Ellsworth Toohey. Which of those matches him best is
>>>>>> still an open question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why does Michael Pendragon lie and misrepresent so much?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MMP has told us he was abused as a boy, and I think that fact is key.
>>>>>> Lying is one tactic children usually try at some point to escape
>>>>>> punishment, and an abused child has all the more reason to keep at it ad
>>>>>> learn how to do it successfully. Since MMP comes across as clever (at
>>>>>> least 120 IQ), it is also fair to think that he was able to learn to lie
>>>>>> successfully. So it is fair to conclude that he did learn to lie
>>>>>> successfully, and escape punishment, more than once.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While no one can blame a child in that position for lying, his doing so
>>>>>> successfully would be giving him the wrong feedback, making him think
>>>>>> that he actually was changing reality by changing his parents' beliefs -
>>>>>> telling him that in fact reality was whatever one wanted it to be, and
>>>>>> that he could be that one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More later, but I wanted to get these two points on record quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting, I'm starting to think both Harry Lime and Jim Senetto were
>>>>> actually projecting in their critiques of "My Father's House."
>>>>
>>>> I can imagine that for the Lime sock (MMP). As far as his Chimp, though,
>>>> I don't want to leap to that conclusion for him. Remember, he is the
>>>> less intelligent of the two, and in consequence he just believes and
>>>> says whatever MMP tells him to. That could be all he was doing in those
>>>> threads as well.
>>
>>> It seems that Senetto took the lead in attempting to drive Stephan
>>> Pickering from the newsgroup though, but that may have been fueled by
>>> Senetto's obvious Antisemitism.
>>
>> Thanks for reminding me. It was actually MMP who did that by bringing
>> NAMBLA to the group. That triggered Jim, just the way MFH triggered him
>> after he was told that it was really about child molesting.
>
> Oh yes, the old Allen Ginsberg joined NAMBLA thing which then gave Jim
> Senetto and excuse to vent his anti Semitic feelings against Stephan
> Pickering.

Again, go fuck yourself, you fat, drunken, lying, illiterate, unwashed
redneck p,o,s.

Jim never made any anti Semitic remarks to Pickles -- or to anyone else,
myself included -- and unlike Pickles, I actually am Jewish (Pickles
claimed that he self-converted, which any real Jew can tell you is not a
real, or accepted, conversion.)

--