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From: john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Sciences of the Artificial applied to Biology
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2025 17:50:24 -0700
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 17:43:36 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 14:02:17 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 16:44:47 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 12:22:12 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 19:48:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 15:16:48 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 16:14:51 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 11:04:32 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 09 Jul 2025 19:38:41 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I forgot to mention that he Sciences of the Artificial digs deep into
>>>>>>>>>why living things (even microscopic ones) have distinct organs and
>>>>>>>>>often components within such organs, versus the organism being a mass
>>>>>>>>>of tissue that somehow does everything.  The driver is efficiency and
>>>>>>>>>simplicity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This assumes that life has already emerged in some unspecified way,
>>>>>>>>>and goes from there.  This is a different approach than Dawkin's
>>>>>>>>>Blind-Watchmaker arguments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ref:  "Simon_Herbert_A_The_Sciences_of_the_Artificial_3rd_ed" - The
>>>>>>>>>Architecture of Complexity.  New copies are available from MIT Press.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Even single-cell critters have levels of intelligence. Some people
>>>>>>>>suggest some level of consciousness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would not go quite that far.  Resembles ancient paganism and
>>>>>>>pantheism, where behind every rock and plant there is a god of some
>>>>>>>sort. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But rocks don't have DNA.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure they do, from everything near.  But a god is better, but it was
>>>>>getting crowded.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Plants turn out to be pretty intelligent. A really good book is
>>>>>>Finding the Mother Tree by Suzanne Simard.
>>>>>
>>>>>I know of that book, but from a book review if I recall.  Made perfect
>>>>>sense.  There is all kinds of horse trading going on between species,
>>>>>no matter the size or kind.
>>>>>
>>>>>What I always tell people is that if you can see a critter, it's not
>>>>>actually important, being far outweighed by all the microscopic stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'd really like to see the fiberoptic-like fungi network seriously
>>>>>>instrumented.
>>>>>
>>>>>I recall seeing that.  There is a kind of clam that has calcite fibers
>>>>>embedded in its shell, and so has a crude form of vision even when
>>>>>closed tight.
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe
>>>>
>>>>Humans have upside-down retinas, with klugey light pipes.
>>>
>>>Yes, but what does it matter?  They seem to be doing well enough.
>>
>>They are very fragile, barely glued to the back of the eyeball. I have
>>personal experiences with that.
>>
>>I wonder why they evolved that way.
>
>Well, it persists because it doesn't become a problem until well after
>people have had their children.
>
>Joe

One theory is that having the blood vessels on top gives better
cooling and lets us look up, near the sun, which is good somehow.

Our night vision is correspondingly bad. Some critters can see single
photons.