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Date: Mon, 20 May 2024 13:41:09 -0400
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Subject: Re: Can Jews be Nazis?
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On 5/20/2024 1:26 PM, john larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2024 09:33:29 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> john larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 May 2024 11:40:06 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/20/2024 9:57 AM, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 19 May 24 23:57:56 UTC, NefeshBarYochai <void@invalid.noy>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BY STEPHEN F. EISENMAN
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many people, the question is inflammatory. The crimes of the
>>>>>> German Nazis were of such magnitude that comparison with any other
>>>>>> historical violence is invidious. The genocide of the Jews was
>>>>>> deliberate and methodical and intended to eliminate every last one.
>>>>>> The goal was the same with the Romani and Sinti people. By comparison,
>>>>>> the Israelis – currently accused of genocide — are rank amateurs. They
>>>>>> have so far killed some 35,000 Palestinians in Gaza out of a
>>>>>> population of 2.3 million.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the question, “Can Jews be Nazis?” is nevertheless important for
>>>>>> challenging claims of moral inoculation by virtue of the Jewish
>>>>>> experience of the Holocaust. If Israeli leaders are indeed committing
>>>>>> a genocide in Gaza – as seems the case — they inhabit the same moral
>>>>>> universe as the German Nazis, regardless of the suffering of past
>>>>>> generations. In addition to the 35,000 killed, the war in Gaza has
>>>>>> injured another 75,000 and displaced 2 million. Most of the victims
>>>>>> are women and children – how can their deaths be justified? Israeli
>>>>>> cabinet ministers, Knesset members, military personnel, and police
>>>>>> have all freely spoken of their wish to force Palestinians into Egypt,
>>>>>> establish Jewish-only settlements in Gaza, and even use an atomic bomb
>>>>>> to kill everyone in the Gaza strip. (U.S. senator Lindsay Graham
>>>>>> recently also suggested using a nuclear weapon against Gaza.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the end of WWII, German cities and industry were heaps of burnt
>>>>> rubble, much worse than Gaza today. Half of Germany was occupied by
>>>>> the USSR. About 6 million jews had been starved and gassed to death by
>>>>> the nazis. About 100 million people died in WWII.
>>>>>
>>>>> Israel wants to survive and is arguably doing what it must do to
>>>>> survive. The bad guys aren't Israel, they are Iran and Hamas and the
>>>>> many other savages, kidnappers, bombers, and rapists.
>>>>>
>>>>> The extreme islamists want to kill all the jews and take their land.
>>>>> The citizens of Israel of course object. Thay have atom bombs and
>>>>> havedn't used them, even after the drons attacks from Iran.
>>>>
>>>> If heavily nuclear-armed nations still routinely feel in great danger of
>>>> their sovereignty and land being taken then it's hard to know what else
>>>> to do for them that could make them feel any safer.
>>>>
>>>>> Long-term, Israel can't allow Iran to have nukes, because they know
>>>>> that Iran will use them on Israeli cities and welcome retaliation as
>>>>> blessed martyrdom.
>>>
>>> Exacrly.  What's scary is that the extremist islamists are eager for
>>> martyrdom, especially somebody else's. The lunatics in Iran may think
>>> that a nuclear exchange is worth it if it kills a lot of jews.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Iran has probably noticed that no nuclear-armed state has ever been
>>>> conquered, it's unclear if Israel knows.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Iranian leadership no doubt has nuke-proof tunnel complexes, built
>>> at great expense. Strange how some people like to live underground.
>>> Sounds nasty and stinky to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> anything to bugger the americans ,
>> who want to lay claim to all the land
> 
> The US has not forcibly acquired land since the war with Mexico. The
> central USA and Alaska were purchased. The people of Alaska and Hawaii
> voted to become states. The people of Puerto Rico can vote to be a
> state or to be an independent country.
> 
> Some countries and their kings or dictators, throughout history, have
> wanted to acquire territory, even when they are busy trashing their
> own conntries. That is really weird and it's still happening now.
> Stupid tribalism.
> 

The US operates 750 military bases in 80 countries worldwide, so it's a 
bit strange to hear other Americans speculate on which _other_ world 
powers are the "militant and aggressively expansionist" ones.

My hypothesis: you could close 3/4ths of them and materially nothing 
would change geopolitically or for the lives or day-to-day safety of any 
average American, either short or long-term.

The US also maintains about 1500 deployed nuclear weapons and Russia 
about the same. Could cut that down to about 50 each and this would be 
nothing but a good deal. Having 1500 ready to go clearly didn't prevent 
Russia from invading anyone, or allow us to prevent it from happening!

Weapons that you can never use but are enormously expensive to maintain 
(and have a very non-negligible chance of accidentally causing a 
civilization-wrecking catastrophe) are pretty dubious value.

Gorbachev purportedly pitched a similar idea but Reagan rejected it, he 
thought Star Wars had a chance of being something other than make-work.