Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!cleanfeed2-b.proxad.net!nnrp4-1.free.fr!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: The Shapiro's experiment HOAX. A 1968 TIME article.
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa31@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2024 21:40:13 +0200
References: <db18709b6ba689b9c07245000ff1b094@www.novabbs.com> <EgMPO.1766243$4J12.285784@fx12.ams4> <670ffed7$1$32085$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <2fcf10d29b40e102861392bbb5f1cb0c@www.novabbs.com>
Organization: De Ster
Mail-Copies-To: nobody
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.8.5 (ea919cf118) (Mac OS 10.12.6)
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <6712b99d$0$12930$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Oct 2024 21:40:13 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.10.137.58
X-Trace: 1729280413 news-2.free.fr 12930 213.10.137.58:55070
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
Bytes: 3214

rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 17:58:47 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Moreover, Shapiro's paper is titled
> > FOURTH TEST OF GENERAL RELATIVITY: --PRELIMINARY RESULTS-- [Emph. JJL]
> >
> > For Shipiro the results were at the edge of what was technically
> > possible to detect, -at the time-.
> > Nowadays taking Shapiro delay has to be incorporated
> > into space probe tracking and orbit determination.
> > Nutters worry about popular reports of the original experiment,
> > while the results themselves are standard everyday engineering.
> >
> > Hint for RH:
> > All interplanetry spacecraft are equipped with transponders.
> > These devices respond to an incoming radio pulse by responding
> > with a reply pulse, with a known delay.
> > The replies are of course detected routinely,
> > and measured delays are used for orbit calculation and navigation.
> 
> THE ABOVE COMMENT SUITS BETTER COMING FROM A KNOW-IT-ALL CHARLATAN.
> YOU ARE SO WRONG AND MISINFORMED THAT MAKES ME CRY.

Please do, you will be in need of lots of crying.

[snip ALL CAPS]

> > Final hint: The Parker near solar probe for example
> > would be hopelessly lost if Shapiro delay on its signals
> > wouldn't be taken into account correctly.
> > While you whine about it the mission engineers who fly the thing
> > routinely take it into account without even giving it another thought,
> >
> > Jan
[snip more ALL CAPS]

> THE USE OF TRANSPONDERS HAS BEEN OF COMMON USE IN SPACECRAFTS, ROCKETS,
> DEEP SPACE SONDES, ETC., SINCE THE SPAGE AGE COMMENCED, AND IS UNRELATED
> TO SHAPIRO'S DELAY. IT'S A MATTER OF COMMON SENSE IN RADIO ENGINEERING.

Not really, the first sats didn't have one.
The point is that having transponders in interplanetary probes
reduces the uncertainty in positions of all bodies
at least a thousandfold, to typically hundreds of meters.
So while you are still whining about what may have been wrong
with the original Shapiro experiment (nothing)
correctly taking gravitational delays into account
has long since been a routine engieering matter
in interplanetary navigation.

There just is no way to ignore it
and still arrive at correct orbit predictions,

Jan