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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: The Shapiro's experiment HOAX. A 1968 TIME article.
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa31@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:19:19 +0200
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rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 16:52:16 +0000, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
> 
> > Mr. Hertz: The eclipse experiment showed double Newtonian. The
> > Pound-Snider showed Newtonian. What does Shapiro show?
> 
> Shapiro called his experiment the 4th. test of general relativity.
> 
> I assume that the former three were:
> 
> 1. TEORETICAL: 1915 Einstein's paper on Mercury perihelion advance.
> 2. EXPERIMENTAL: 1919 Eddington's experiment of starlight deflection by
> Sun's gravity.
> 3. EXPERIMENTAL: 1961 Pound-Rebka experiment using a 22 meters
> trajectory of gamma rays generated by a radioactive Fe57 sample, SOME
> without recoil in the atoms that generated them.
> 
> 
> Shapiro's experiment was based on N�2, but transforming deflection angle
> into a linearized light trajectory in a curved spacetime. He calculated
> that light had to travel an extra amount of 68 Km when an MW beam was
> reflected by Mercury, on the opposite side of the Sun.

You misunderstood that too.
Half the effect is gravitational time dilation.
For convenience in comparing with experiment
the total effect -is represented- as an effective extra path length.
(or time delay)

> A powerful, narrow wide radar beam at 8Ghz was used to capture echos from
> Mercury, more than 200 million Km far away. It was also used with Venus.
> 
> One of the problems in this conception is that GR doesn't contemplate
> ANY relationship between curved spacetime and linear euclidean 3D space,
> so the equations that Shapiro developed are QUESTIONABLE.
> 
> 
> He replaced angular displacements by delays in the travel of light
> through the allegedly curved spacetime.
> 
> You have to add more suspicious issues, like the extraction of the very
> weak echo from a received signal highly contaminated with noise and
> several degradations and perturbations (from the Sun and Earth itself).
> 
> The results were re-published after heavy computer-based post-processing
> of received data, about one year after the 1971 paper.
> 
> Now, relativism has spread the myth that Shapiro's delay is essential
> for interplanetary travel, as it's present at any distance from the Sun,
> INFECTING space&time perception for anything even at 90" from the axis
> center Sun-Center Earth (as computed from Earth).
> 
> I call Shapiro's delay (some microseconds) IRRELEVANT for space travels,
> given the delay of light in the zone of tens of minutes for any deep
> space probe. But relativists here are in negation state of mind (and
> reason).

Those tens of minutes can be measured to nanosecond accuracy these days.
(by using transponders rather than radar echos)
Precise orbit determinations depends on it.
You are showing off your complete ignorance, once again,

Jan