Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!cleanfeed4-a.proxad.net!nnrp1-2.free.fr!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: How did Einstein Develop his Field Equations?  When: A. He admitted having little math
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa31@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 22:56:35 +0100
References: <11ed9ce5561647a339178272953d5c1a@www.novabbs.com> <676bf17f$0$29726$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <27cc03a1ab0488bf362d322e32b4a4dd@www.novabbs.com> <67716585$0$12919$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <058de8e31bcf885d667d37be1d9badf7@www.novabbs.com> <6773a854$0$29719$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <4d257ac660b0a521c889d3d9175ef1c3@www.novabbs.com> <67766d86$0$406$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <94d875d2c4c7a7d6331e267f08b10935@www.novabbs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Organization: De Ster
Mail-Copies-To: nobody
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.8.5 (ea919cf118) (Mac OS 10.12.6)
Lines: 118
Message-ID: <67770b93$0$29717$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 02 Jan 2025 22:56:35 CET
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.10.137.58
X-Trace: 1735854995 news-1.free.fr 29717 213.10.137.58:53227
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
Bytes: 5871

LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 10:42:14 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> > LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 8:16:21 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>
> >>> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 15:06:47 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 11:50:23 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> How did Einstein Develop his Field Equations?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When:
> >>>>>>>> A. He admitted having little math and no ability in non-Euclidean
> >>>>>>>> geometry.
> >>>>>>>> B. He always relied on someone else to do his math.
> >>>>>>>> C. He denied getting it from Hilbert.
> >>>>>>>> D. He never said who he got it from.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Answer:
> >>>>>>>> He stole them from Hilbert.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hilbert disagreed,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jan
> >>>>>> Here are two other versions of the quote;
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Every street boy in Gottingen knows as much elliptical geometry as
> >>>>>> Einstein. But the equations are his."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  "Every boy in the streets of Gottingen understands more about
> >>>>>> four-dimensional geometry than Einstein. Yet, in spite of that,
> >>>>>> Einstein did the work and not the mathematicians." — David Hilbert
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is only one way to interpret this. That is Hilbert pointing out
> >>>>>> that obviously Einstein did not invent the field equations because he
> >>>>>> could not.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is your way, and it is obviously wrong.
> >>>>> Hilbert chides his fellow mathematicians, and hence himself,
> >>>>> for not having found the correct equation of general relativity,
> >>>>> despite their superior technical skills.
> >>>>> Hilbert goes on to state that:
> >>>>> In spite of that it was Einstein who got there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You may guess what Hilbert did next: (see the ref supplied by RH)
> >>>>> ====
> >>>>> On December 4th, Hilbert even nominated Einstein for election as a
> >>>>> corresponding member of the Göttingen Mathematical Society.
> >>>>> (So to his own backyard, where all those superior Gottingen
> >>>>> mathematicians dwelt. It was the highest honour he could bestow
> >>>>> personally)
> >>>>> ====
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just what you would expect Hilbert to do,
> >>>>> if he considered Einstein an incompetent bungler
> >>>>> who had just stolen his results.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You had better forget about all this.
> >>>>> You are wrong about it, period.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jan
> >>>>
> >>>> Stop talking idiocies,
> >>>
> >>> [snip abuse, and new irrelevancies]
> >>>
> >>> Do you deny that the text I quoted is in the reference you gave?
> >>>
> >>> Jan
> >
> >> Everyone can plainly understand Hilbert was pointing out that Einstein
> >> was not competent to have thought up the field equations. It is utterly
> >> deceitful to think otherwise. You are so deluded.
> >
> > Everyone who is not wearing your blinders can see what Hilbert said,
> > and what he intended.
> > He praised Einstein for having found the field equations,
> > despite his initial lack of the mathematical toolkit needed for it.
> > Einstein created and learned for himself whatever was needed.
> >
> > BTW, in a later note Hilbert expressed admiration,
> > and a bit of jealousy, at Einsten's ease and speed
> > in deriving the Mercury precession from the field equations.
> > "If only I could calculate like you..."
> >
> > Jan
> As usual, you are not the slightest bit persuasive. "...towards the end
> of his life Einstein admitted to: 'Having been an unscrupulous
> opportunist.'"- ibid p. 38.

Ah, so you are quote mining again. There are many versions, for example:
====
Einstein portrayed himself, correctly and unapologetically, as someone
who must appear as "unscrupulous opportunist" to the systematic
epistemologist by combining realism, idealism, and positivism in order
to advance his theorizing.  
==== 

This is the right attitude with respect to philosophy
for any scientist who wants to get somewhere.
Who cares what a 'systematic epistemologist' may think about you?

Better still, don't listen to philosophers at all.
Feynman for example: "Philosophy of Science is as useful to scientists
as Ornithology is to birds." (unsourced)

Jan