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Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Newton: Photon falling from h meters increase its energy.
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa31@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 22:50:44 +0100
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> Den 12.01.2025 02:31, skrev rhertz:
> > On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 20:45:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > 
> >> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:43:41 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> W dniu 11.01.2025 o 19:10, rhertz pisze:
> >>>>> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:25:42 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> W dniu 11.01.2025 o 18:16, rhertz pisze:
> >>>>>>> Under Newton, a photon has gravitational mass m, for which it's
> >>>>>>> affected
> >>>>>>> by gravity.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Under which Newton? Do you mean Newton's
> >>>>>> optics? It was abandoned in XVIIIth century.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Von Soldner's Newton (since 1801)
> >>>>
> >>>> Newton's optics was abandoned, if not in XVIIIth
> >>>> century than not very long after 1801.
> >>>
> >>> And recovered by Einstein in 1911, with a paper WHERE HE MAKE
> >>> AFFIRMATIONS about gravitational mass of energy.
> >>>
> >>> Ask yourself WHY 1960 Pound-Rebka paper had the title "Apparent weight
> >>> of photons" and later, before his death, Pound wrote his memoirs
> >>> "Weighting photons".
> >>
> >> All entirely correct,
> >> -in the Newtonian approximation to general relativity-.
> >>
> >> As yet we have not yet encountered circumstances in which
> >> the Newtonian approximation is not good enough
> >> to calculate the relativistic red shift,
> >>
> >> Jan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Then you accept what Einstein affirmed in his 1911 paper: "Energy has
> > gravitational mass".

Certainly. That survives into the general theory.
The gravitational binding energy contributes to the stress-energy
tensor, which is the source term in general relativity.
This is what makes the theory non-linear, and hence difficult.

> > So much gobbledygook in such old paper just to conceal that he was using
> > Planck to calculate a shift of gh/c^2 and also m=E/c^2.

Why conceal it? It is correct, in the Newtonian limit.
And it was good heuristics, on the way to the general theory.

> > And 50 years later you had Pound embarrassing himself by using an
> > eye-catcher title on his paper "Does photons have mass?", just to forget
> > to expand that title within his 1960 paper! Rebka was only his slave, a
> > graduate student who depended on Pound to get his PhD in 1961.

??You??

And nothing wrong with it.
The energy of all those photons inside the sun for example
does contribute to its gravitational mass.

Jan