Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!cleanfeed2-b.proxad.net!nnrp2-2.free.fr!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: 25 Classic Books That Have Been Banned
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa31@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2025 10:47:49 +0100
References: <03gqqj562r4vi0kpi2vl8flsi59jsbot56@4ax.com> <2cd9b498-9b17-c4f4-47c3-bd54eb35ac59@example.net> <67b06d56$0$12928$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <87frkbb1mw.fsf@parhasard.net> <67b5b17f$2$11461$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <nr5crjdu64npcckm03blo56kuro4gt6ebb@4ax.com> <67b847db$0$430$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <5ee517b715162734b14c21268c701894@www.novabbs.com> <vpatuo$3j7ah$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Organization: De Ster
Mail-Copies-To: nobody
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.8.5 (ea919cf118) (Mac OS 10.12.6)
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <67b99d45$3$405$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Feb 2025 10:47:49 CET
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.10.137.58
X-Trace: 1740217669 news-2.free.fr 405 213.10.137.58:49487
X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net
Bytes: 5067

William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

> jerryfriedman wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 9:31:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > 
> >> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 11:25:03 +0100, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
> >>> Lodder) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>  Ar an cúigiú lá déag de mí Feabhra, scríobh J. J. Lodder:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  > D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > > On Wed, 12 Feb 2025, Judith Latham wrote:
> >>>>>  > >
> >>>>>  > > > Below are 25 of the most popular works of literature from the
> >>>>> last
> >>>>>  > > > century that have been banned from schools, libraries, and, in
> >>>>> some
> >>>>>  > > > cases, entire countries. [...]
> >>>>>  > > > To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
> >>>>>  > >
> >>>>>  > > Boring!
> >>>>>  >
> >>>>>  > And thoroughly American-nasty.
> >>>>>  > The idea that it is allright to kill any bird for any reason,
> >>>>>  > because you happen to feel that way, or just for target practice
> >>>>>  > put me off whatever else the book is trying to say.
> >>>>>  > Excepting Mockingbirds doesn't make it any better,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's nothing specifically American about hunting.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course not, it goes back in our ancestors for millions of years.
> >>>> And the chimps also do it.
> >>>> What seems to be particular about the American way of hunting
> >>>> is the mass-murder aspect it may have,
> >>>> like in senselessly killing of herds of bison, or flocks of pigeons.
> >>>> This is more like a few wolves killing off whole herds of sheep,
> >>>> or school shooters killing all they can hit,
> >>>> for no other reason than that they can.
> >>>
> >>> The USA (or predecessor colonies) took out the buffalo (well, nearly)
> >>> and the passenger pigeon (permanently), but the DoDo and others were
> >>> the responsibility of others.
> >>
> >> The predecessor colonies had nothing to do with it,
> >> as it is all in the 19th century.
> >> As for the Dodo, Wikip denies that hunting was the main reason
> >> for them going extinct.
> >>
> >>> IOW, this is /not/ "particular about Americans". At least, not when
> >>> historical events are listed.
> >>
> >> Perhaps,
> >> but I'm not aware of non-American prey species extinction
> >> by massive hunting.
> > 
> > That's widely considered to be what happened to the
> > moas in New Zealand.  The Great Auk was hunted to
> > extinction, mostly for its down, in Europe and North
> > America, though the last colony (near Iceland) was
> > wiped out for museum specimens, according to
> > Wikipedia.
> > 
> > The places to look for other examples would be islands.
> > 
> >> OTOH, the USA did it deliberately,
> >> as part of scorched earth tactics.
> >> <https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/what-happened-to-the-bison.htm>
> >> It was ecocide as a means for ethnical cleansing.
> >> Hunting for fun, or food, or even leather had little to do with it.
> > ..
> > 
> > It seems to me that I've heard of one or two
> > similar examples, but I can't think of any, so
> > maybe not.
> 
> Exterminating the animals on which a pastoral foe depends on has a long
> history.  It was done, e.g. in Ireland in the late 1500s.  Of course,
> with  trains and better guns it became easier.

It seems to have been the dogs that did it, mostly.

> As A. L. Rowse frequently noted, events which took place in North 
> America were often foreshadowed in Ireland.

The last wolf in Ireland was killed in County Carlow in 1786,
according to Wikipedia.
But those huge Irish and Scotish wolfhounds
were already a source of wonder for the Romans.
Some of those dogs may have appeared in the circus,

Jan