Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!news-out.netnews.com!postmaster.netnews.com!eu1.netnews.com!not-for-mail
X-Trace: DXC=6NI44]oLi?XA=3Ee<`a9E[U5[F2hIijD_7J470dMQQ7[^dBJd4@>=oT^ngThFaNi`Vh]J;WohKJ`Qf@HSLgR[]oX7dKkgDfTED\iJPUY0^i>7V
X-Complaints-To: support@frugalusenet.com
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 00:58:29 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: OT: Public libraries
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
References: <vu6nii$3arap$1@dont-email.me> <68070333$8$19$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <vu736r$3n68b$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
From: bitrex <user@example.net>
In-Reply-To: <vu736r$3n68b$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <680721f6$11$19$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1
X-Trace: 1745297910 reader.netnews.com 19 127.0.0.1:47779

On 4/21/2025 11:42 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 4/21/2025 7:47 PM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 4/21/2025 8:23 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> We've been discussing the long-term relevance of public
>>> libraries and the funding thereof.  It seems like this is
>>> something that will likely be fading from municipal budgets,
>>> largely from disuse and ease of other entities picking up
>>> any such use that is shed in their absence.
>>
>> Six new town libraries are either under construction or recently 
>> opened in Massachusetts, at a total cost of maybe around $200 million, 
>> so maybe people in different parts of the US tend to value different 
>> things..it something municipalities around here do continue to spend 
>> money on.
> 
> Do they generate traffic?  Or, just interest in spending tax dollars>
> We have 27 different branch libraries, here.  Serving a population
> of about 500K -- so 15-20K patrons (on average) per branch.

She found townspeople will turn to a good library for just about every 
service under the sun, even ones that aren't really appropriate, like 
resume-writing and tax preparation! "Sorry we don't do that, here."

Being a town librarian in a well-trafficked library is a bit like 
working a generalized help desk, where people look for support with all 
sorts of life-problems, often but not always related to information 
gathering. She found it easier to think of herself as some kind of 
"information broker" in the public service in that role, rather than as 
someone who specializes in just books.

For better and worse, on bad days being the help desk can be as lousy as 
any customer tech support job.

But along those lines large library science conferences these days seem 
to spend more time talking about AI than they do about the printed word.


> The branches are sited in areas of wildly varying demographics,
> wealth, etc.  *MY* branch is always empty.  No one sits to read the
> daily newspapers flown in or browse the stacks (why not store the
> books in less expensive space?).  Perhaps half of the workstations
> are in use at any given time.

What less expensive space is there to store books on a timescale of 
50-100 years than public property? The capital is committed, no 
landlords to endlessly raise rents. Over that time scale it probably 
amortizes out to pennies per sq ft/yr


> Branches in the less afluent areas often see more use (of the 
> workstations).
> (You'll also find hypodermic syringes in the parking lot and people
> sleeping outside.)
> 
> But, the traditional role of a library seems to be preverted into
> one of a social gathering place (for "activities") and internet
> cafe.  None particularly require a "library" for those purposes
> (e.g., the local park district also offers activities as well
> as special facilities for them -- potter's wheels, kilns,
> tennis/basketball/pickleball courts, exercise machines, meeting
> rooms, etc.)

Modern librarians don't tend to see that as "perversion" it's part of 
the plan. THE COMMUNIST PLAN!! just kidding..

<snip>

> That differs from what we see, here.  The trendline has been steadily 
> downward
> (from personal observations as well as comments from the librarians that
> work at the local branch)

Ya, towns tend to spend money on what their residents and their 
governance values. I believe most everywhere the public library system 
tends to operate under the purview of the town/county/municipality 
government, so if it sucks for reasons other than lack of funding, you 
know where the buck finally stops.

Cases of nepotism and mismanagement of town libraries happen even in 
enlightened MA though, and there is drama and in fighting like any other 
industry. Ineffectual management probably gets the boot quicker in 
wealthier towns up here compared to some other places, though.


> Maintaining a 3D printer would require someone on staff who could do so.
> They have to contract for maintenance of the public PCs -- even the
> terminals that are used to check out materials are unsupported,
> locally:  "The computers are down.  We have to record your library card
> and the 15 digit identifiers of any materials you are checking out
> ON PAPER (and then reenter them, manually, when the computers come
> back online)"
> 
> Tell your girlfriend not to move west (or, MARRY her and ensure you can
> support her!)


She did her time in the public service and she now works for a major 
research-oriented university and makes near six figures in the 
academia-support role (a number of big schools have huge research 
libraries), she don't need my "support", lol..