Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Ben Bacarisse fails understand that deciders COMPUTE THE MAPPING
 FROM INPUTS
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 11:26:26 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <686286c94b0891401b08e8757f4cd8571c13e046@i2pn2.org>
References: <va104l$376ed$4@dont-email.me> <va3f7o$3ipp3$1@dont-email.me>
 <729cc551062c13875686d266a5453a488058e81c@i2pn2.org>
 <va3kac$3nd5c$1@dont-email.me>
 <148bf4dd91f32379a6d81a621fb7ec3fc1e00db0@i2pn2.org>
 <va3lai$3nd5c$2@dont-email.me> <va46sd$3pr24$1@dont-email.me>
 <va4mle$3s0hu$1@dont-email.me>
 <5591ff08ed8f7b4bdf33813681e156b775efe0ec@i2pn2.org>
 <va63uu$2fo9$1@dont-email.me>
 <b0a86b6a1343ebb5f9112ae757768a7cbbc770b2@i2pn2.org>
 <va65r8$6ht7$1@dont-email.me>
 <da75188ffa7677bd2b6979c8fc6ba82119404306@i2pn2.org>
 <878qwn0wyz.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
 <efacnfsQdv-ErlT7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <87le0jzc8f.fsf_-_@bsb.me.uk> <vaj1kd$2kvg9$1@dont-email.me>
 <vamk31$3d76g$1@dont-email.me> <van30n$3f6c0$2@dont-email.me>
 <vap90d$3t06p$1@dont-email.me> <vaptvg$3vumk$2@dont-email.me>
 <vaqbo3$22im$2@dont-email.me> <vaqo99$4h1p$1@dont-email.me>
 <vas02f$ds5d$2@dont-email.me> <x4udnSLApNIOXkz7nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <vasiff$gt2d$2@dont-email.me> <vav40n$10jsm$5@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2024 15:26:26 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="364206"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg";
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
In-Reply-To: <vav40n$10jsm$5@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 9621
Lines: 161

On 8/31/24 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 8/30/2024 8:46 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 30.aug.2024 om 15:05 schreef olcott:
>>> On 8/30/2024 3:32 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 29.aug.2024 om 23:13 schreef olcott:
>>>>>
>>>>> One cannot simply ignore the actual behavior of DDD emulated
>>>>> by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language because
>>>>> this actual behavior is not the behavior that one expects or
>>>>> one would like to have.
>>>>
>>>> You cannot deny the semantics of the x86 language simply because you 
>>>> do not like it, or you prefer another behaviour.
>>>> The specification of the semantics of the x86 language does not give 
>>>> room for a context depending interpretation. It is independent on 
>>>> which processor, or which simulator processes this finite string.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *This is before any aborting occurs*
>>> *This is before any aborting occurs*
>>> *This is before any aborting occurs*
>>>
>>> The behavior of
>>> the directly executed DDD and executed HHH
>>> is different from the behavior of
>>> the emulated DDD and the emulated HHH
>>
>> Not according to the unmodified world calls simulator, which, when 
>> given the same input shows that the DDD based on the aborting HHH, halts.
>>
>>>
>>> and all four of them are emulated by the world
>>> class x86 emulator libx86emu
>>>
>>> It is easy to see that when the executed HHH emulates
>>> DDD that it does this correctly when we look at the
>>> execution trace and see the the first four instructions
>>> of DDD are listed.
>>>
>>> _DDD()
>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>
>>> New slave_stack at:1038c4
>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc
>>> [00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>> [0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>> New slave_stack at:14e2ec
>>> [00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>> [00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>> [00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>> [0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>
>>> Then this emulated DDD calls an emulated HHH(DDD).
>>> It is easy to see that when the executed HHH emulates
>>> itself emulated DDD that it does this correctly when we
>>> look at the execution trace and see the the first four
>>> instructions of DDD are listed again.
>>>
>>>
>> And after a few recursions HHH sees a 'special condition' after which 
>> it aborts and halt. 
> 
> If you cannot see that this special condition conclusively
> proves that HHH must abort its emulation of DDD to prevent
> the infinite exection of DDD then you have insufficient
> technical competence.

But the fact that it must abort to give an answer doesn't mean that it 
gets to LIE about the answer.

> 
> If you can see this then you understand that this criteria has been met:
> 
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>      stop running unless aborted then
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
> 
> Here is is with 100 millions instructions and NO ABORT

And thus, not of the HHH that you use. You just admitted to LYING about 
what you are doing.

Also, you seem to have a problem counting, likely because you words are 
based on lies. The below is only 20 instr

The fact that HHH can't do what is needed doesn't make the correct 
anwwer wrong, it only makes HHH wrong.

You are just proving you don't understand what truth actually means.

> 
> _DDD()
> [00002137] 55               push ebp
> [00002138] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> [00002144] 83c404           add esp,+04
> [00002147] 5d               pop ebp
> [00002148] c3               ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002148]
> 
> _main()
> [00002157] 55               push ebp
> [00002158] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000215a] e8d8ffffff       call 00002137
> [0000215f] 33c0             xor eax,eax
> [00002161] 5d               pop ebp
> [00002162] c3               ret
> Size in bytes:(0012) [00002162]
> 
>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>   address   address   data      code       language
>   ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
> [00002157][0010379f][00000000] 55               push ebp
> [00002158][0010379f][00000000] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000215a][0010379b][0000215f] e8d8ffffff       call 00002137
> [00002137][00103797][0010379f] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][00103797][0010379f] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][00103793][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][0010378f][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> New slave_stack at:103843
> 
> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11384b
> [00002137][0011383b][0011383f] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][0011383b][0011383f] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][00113837][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][00113833][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> New slave_stack at:14e26b
> [00002137][0015e263][0015e267] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][0015e263][0015e267] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][0015e25f][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][0015e25b][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> New slave_stack at:15e30b
> [00002137][0016e303][0016e307] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][0016e303][0016e307] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][0016e2ff][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][0016e2fb][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> New slave_stack at:16e3ab
> [00002137][0017e3a3][0017e3a7] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][0017e3a3][0017e3a7] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][0017e39f][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][0017e39b][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
> New slave_stack at:17e44b
> [00002137][0018e443][0018e447] 55               push ebp
> [00002138][0018e443][0018e447] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
> [0000213a][0018e43f][00002137] 6837210000       push 00002137
> [0000213f][0018e43b][00002144] e853f4ffff       call 00001597
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========