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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Halting Problem: What Constitutes Pathological Input
Date: Wed, 7 May 2025 06:43:06 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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In-Reply-To: <vveg8c$89u0$6@dont-email.me>

On 5/6/25 10:24 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/6/2025 5:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 5/6/25 5:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2025 4:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/6/2025 4:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/6/2025 3:49 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 4:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 3:22 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Am Tue, 06 May 2025 13:05:15 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 5:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/25 10:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:59 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 7:49 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO COMPUTE THAT THE INPUT IS NON-HALTING IFF (if and only 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if) the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping FROM INPUTS IS COMPUTED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. it is found to map something other than the above 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> function
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is a contradiction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The above function VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE. You make no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> show how my claim THAT IT VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE IS 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> INCORRECT you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply take that same quote from a computer science 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> textbook as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> infallible word-of-God.
>>>>>>>> What does it violate?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing that you don't understand proof by
>>>>>>>>>>>> contradiction,
>>>>>>>>>>> Not at all. The COMPUTER SCIENCE of your requirements IS WRONG!
>>>>>>>>>> No, YOU don't understand what Computer Science actually is 
>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>>> Every function computed by a model of computation must apply a 
>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>> sequence of steps that are specified by the model to the actual 
>>>>>>>>> finite
>>>>>>>>> string input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are very confused. An algorithm or program computes a function.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nothing computes a function unless it applies a specific
>>>>>>> set of rules to its actual input to derive its output.
>>>>>>> Anything that ignores its input is not computing a function.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False.  Anything that correctly associates a function's input to a 
>>>>>> function's output for all elements of the function's domain does 
>>>>>> in fact compute that function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, given this function:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For all integers X and Y:
>>>>>> (X,Y) maps to 5
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This algorithm computes it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int foo(int X, int Y) { return 5; }
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The rules that must be applied to the inputs
>>>>> are
>>>>
>>>> Anything that can associate the input with the output.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WRONG!
>>> Any defined process that CAUSES an INPUT to be associated
>>> with an OUTPUT.
>>>
>>
>> And it does, it causes ALL inputs to be associated with the value 5.
> 
> Ignoring the input cannot possibly be construed
> as computing the mapping from the input.
> 

Sure it can.

You just don't really understand the meaning of the words, showig how 
stupid you are.

After all, times_zero(x) doesn't need to know what its input is to give 
an answer according to the mapping it is defined to give.