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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior
 of their caller
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2025 19:30:41 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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In-Reply-To: <104tuh6$264oq$9@dont-email.me>

On 7/12/25 11:21 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/12/2025 3:17 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 11.jul.2025 om 23:05 schreef olcott:
>>> On 7/11/2025 3:52 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 10.jul.2025 om 16:35 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 7/10/2025 5:54 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 09.jul.2025 om 15:02 schreef olcott:>
>>>>>>> All Turing machine deciders only compute the mapping
>>>>>>> from their actual inputs. This entails that they never
>>>>>>> compute any mapping from non-inputs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least one thing you understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From the bottom of page 319 has been adapted to this*
>>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Linz proof does not understand this*
>>>>>
>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.∞
>>>>>    *if Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts, and*
>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>    *if Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not halt*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The evidence is that the input includes the code to abort and halt,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> abort and stop running
>>>>>>> *IS NOT THE SAME THING AS*
>>>>>>> abort and halt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another claim without evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> *It is common knowledge in the theory of computation*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another claim without evidence.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Your lack of knowledge of computer science is not a rebuttal*
>>>
>>> Look at the definition of a Turing Machine (e.g., the one here). The 
>>> machine has states. Each state can be final or non-final. If the 
>>> machine's state is non-final, in the next step the machine "does" 
>>> something, namely, it can write something on the tape, move its head, 
>>> and/or change its state to a different state. This is how the machine 
>>> makes a progress.
>>
>> So, aborting the simulation when the machine has not yet reached its 
>> final state, is a violation of the Turing Machine.
>>
> 
> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
>    return;
> }
> 
> So you don't understand that DDD simulated by
> pure simulator HHH keeps repeating its first
> line forever?

And you don't understand that you HHH isn't a pure simulator, not if it 
returns 0?

I guess you are just admitting that you think lying is valid logic.

> 
>>>
>>> However, if the state is final, the machine just stops and continues 
>>> no more. This will be its final setting, the head will not move 
>>> anymore and the tape remains the same forever. This event is non- 
>>> reversible and is what we call halting.
>>
>> Exactly. And halting is what DDD does, when not disturbed by a 
>> premature abort that violates the semantics of the x86 language.
>>
> 
>