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From: hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: The Shapiro's experiment HOAX. A 1968 TIME article.
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 22:05:22 +0000
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On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 19:42:59 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

<snip>

> [snip irelevancies about history space travel, yes we all know]
>
> And back to the point:
> You whine about a popularised account of Shapiro's radar measurements
> of planetary distances. (and relativistic delays that were a by-product)
> All this from almost 60 years ago.
>
> It has completely escaped your notice that in the meantime
> measurements in the solar system have increased more than a thousandfold
> in accuracy,
> (by using transponders in interplanetary probes instead of radar echos)
> and that Shapiro delays are nowadays taken into account
> as a routine correction that needs to be applied
> to get interplanetary distances and hence navigation right.
>
> In other words, it is no longer an issue of science,
> it is routine engineering, (at places like JPL)
>
> Jan

I insist that you are an ignorant idiot pretending to know something
about radio/laser communications.

You are the one who started this by asserting that passive reflections
of EM radiation decay with 1/r⁴, and not the usual 1/r². This stupidity
alone is enough to disqualify you for any further discussion about EM
propagation in outer space. Any RF/laser engineering expert would put
you on the "IGNORE LIST", just for being such a donkey.

I have to remark a couple of things:

1. If you are a woman, I apologize. I only call names to men. Even more,
   I withdraw my comments about your stupidity and ignorance, and let
   you to chose what you are. Of course that you're not a connoisseur on
   these subjects.

2. You didn't let me know which are your academical degrees. Let me
   know, as it would help a lot to understand some biases of your
   thoughts.

3. You keep insisting with transponders and their importance, as if I
   had written anything about them. On the contrary, I showed to you
   that transponders are essential in space (and earthly) travels.

4. It makes me sad your ignorance about what is required for space
   travel's guidance. It seems that you didn't read a single word of
   what I wrote on this matter.

5. Shapiro's delay is IRRELEVANT in space travel. Completely useless.
   Any space flight is computed IN REAL TIME with many sophisticated
   optical and EM based techniques, like triangulations with WELL KNOWN
   trajectories of selected celestial bodies (planets, moons, asteroids)
   plus the traditional guidance by well known fixed stars.

   There is no 3D celestial GPS to be used in space flights. A link
   with Earth stations are UNIDIMENSIONAL in a 3D space.
   Please, can let this ENTER INTO YOUR THICK SKULL?


Some links, so you have fun (I doubt it):


Shapiro time delay is caused by refraction. Gravitational time dilation
does not exist.​

https://forums.space.com/threads/shapiro-time-delay-is-caused-by-refraction-gravitational-time-dilation-does-not-exist.66470/


Shortcomings of Shapiro delay-based tests of the
equivalence principle on cosmological scales

https://hal.science/hal-02283593/document


SOLAR-SYSTEM DYNAMICS AND TESTS OF GENERAL RELATIVITY WITH
PLANETARY LASER RANGING

https://ilrs.cddis.eosdis.nasa.gov/lw14/docs/papers/sci7b_jcm.pdf


Planetary Fact Sheets

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/planetfact.html


NASA Horizons Web Application

https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons/app.html#/


AND THIS LINK IS A GIFT. AMAZING SITE:

https://theskylive.com/planetarium?obj=moon#ra|3.8906247073185565|dec|33.538244917897146|fov|71