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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2025 22:31:52 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 3/28/25 10:08 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 3/28/2025 8:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 3/28/25 6:41 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 3/28/2025 4:58 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 3/28/25 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/27/25 10:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/27/25 9:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 7:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/25 8:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 4:56 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 27 Mar 2025 13:10:46 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/27/2025 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/25 11:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 10:28 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/25 11:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 8:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting is that the machine won't reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> staste even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if an unbounded number of steps are emulated. Since 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH doesn't do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, it isn't showing non-halting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any HHH will never reach its final 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state in an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unbounded number of steps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But DDD emulated by an actually correct emulator will,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you were not intentionally persisting in a lie you would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledge the dead obvious that DDD emulated by HHH 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics of the x86 language cannot possibly correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, HHH is not a correct simulator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You say that it is not a correct simulator on the basis
>>>>>>>>>>> of your ignorance of the x86 language that conclusively
>>>>>>>>>>> proves that HHH does correctly simulate the first four
>>>>>>>>>>> instructions of DDD and correctly simulates itself
>>>>>>>>>>> simulating the first four instructions of DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It isn't a correct simulator, 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You know that you are lying about this or you would
>>>>>>>>> show how DDD emulated by HHH would reach its final state
>>>>>>>>> ACCORDING TO THE SEMANTICS OF THE X86 LANGUAGE.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It can't be, because your HHH doesn't meet your requirement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You cannot show that because you know you are lying about that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure we can, make a main that directly calls HHH and then DDD, 
>>>>>> then call HHH1(DDD)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That HHH will return 0, saying that DDD is non-halting, but the 
>>>>>> DDD wll return, showing that DDD is halting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the trace that HHH generates, and that HHH1 generates, 
>>>>>> HHH's will be a subset of the trace that HHH1 generates, showing 
>>>>>> that it is NOT proof that this program is non-halting as that 
>>>>>> exact same initial segment halts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your argument about changing HHH shows that it doesn't halt is 
>>>>>> just invalid, as then you either changed the input, or 
>>>>>> demonstrated that you input was a class error as it didn't contain 
>>>>>> the COMPLETE representation of the code of DDD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, This is what you have been told for years, but you refuse 
>>>>>> to look at the truth, because you have been brainwashed by your lies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't understand how that confused mess addresses
>>>>> the point of this thread:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a verified fact that the finite string of machine
>>>>> code of DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantics of
>>>>> the x86 language has different behavior than DDD emulated
>>>>> by HHH1 according to the semantics of the x86 language.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where did you "verify" that LIE.
>>>>
>>>> You claim fails the simple test:
>>>>
>>>> What is the first instruction actually correctly emulated by the 
>>>> rules of the x86 language by HHH and HHH1 that had a different result.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When DDD emulated by HHH calls HHH(DDD) this call NEVER returns.
>>
>> Only because your HHH doesn't do a correct emulation. PERIOD,
>>
> 
> I am defining a correct emulation as obeying the semantics
> of the x86 language and you are defining it to disagree
> with this semantics thus proving that you know you are lying.
> 
> 

Right, and that means you don't stop until the process does.

Which your program doesn't do.

Sorry, but you are just admitting to being a SRUPID LIAR.