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From: John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 07:43:57 +0700
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On Thu, 12 Dec 2024 13:49:54 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/12/2024 11:51 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 12/12/2024 8:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 12/12/2024 7:19 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>> On 12/11/2024 4:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 12/11/2024 3:06 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 3:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 12:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/11/2024 6:06 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Reality is that ALL firearms are dangerious. [sic]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John, are ALL firearms equally dangerous? Really?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Of course not!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The AR was specifically designed to be more 
>>>>>>>>>> dangerous to the enemy than its predecessor. If 
>>>>>>>>>> that were not the objective, there would have been 
>>>>>>>>>> no need for a new design.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That was 65 years ago. Designs have progressed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, although I haven't looked recently, for many 
>>>>>>>>> years the #1 fatal round in USA was .22LR 
>>>>>>>>> overwhelmingly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Without editing or rephrasing Mr Slocumb's comment, 
>>>>>>>>> "all firearms are dangerous" in in fact obviously true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John was using "All firearms are dangerous" 
>>>>>>>> specifically as a defense of wide proliferation of 
>>>>>>>> AR- style rifles. Check the thread. By ignoring that 
>>>>>>>> fact, his buddies are pretending that all levels of 
>>>>>>>> danger are equally bad.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ignoring levels of danger is beyond absurd. If you 
>>>>>>>> accept that, you may as well extend the concept to 
>>>>>>>> straight pins, stairways, sunburn and hell, 
>>>>>>>> everything else in the world. And you may as well 
>>>>>>>> advocate for private ownership of nuclear weapons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (And I'll note that the gun fetishists here actually 
>>>>>>>> _have_ tried to do that with other everyday items! I 
>>>>>>>> won't remind people of their other chosen items, 
>>>>>>>> because that will just set them off on other 
>>>>>>>> illogical chases.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every farmer in my are has plenty of ammonia rich 
>>>>>>> fertilizer and a few hundred gallons of diesel. Not 
>>>>>>> one of them has emulated Timothy McVeigh. Not once.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Materiel is not volition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ammonia-rich fertilizer and diesel fuel were not 
>>>>>> designed with the intent to kill humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, for all the difference it made to 19 children; 168 
>>>>> people altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps the difference is in the act and the actor not 
>>>>> the tool.
>>>>
>>>> Still a bad analogy, the same used to compare deaths from 
>>>> car crashes, kitchen knives (any manner of pointy 
>>>> objects) - all lethal when used with the intent to 
>>>> murder, but none designed with the intent to murder.
>>>>
>>>> The AR-15 when used for the intended design is 
>>>> specifically lethal to humans. That cannot be said for 
>>>> fertilizer, ammonia, cars, ball-point pens......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So you agree with me that the crucial aspects are the 
>>> actor and the act, not the hardware.
>>>
>> 
>> To a certain extent.
>> 
>> If every human being could be trusted to act responsibly, 
>> allowing a device that was developed expressly to kill other 
>> human beings to be possessed without any restrictions 
>> wouldn't be a problem.
>> 
>> But Humans can't be trusted.
>> 
>> Following your posit to the extreme, there should be no 
>> reason therefore to prevent me from mounting a fully- 
>> operational m134 minigun on the roof of my car. Hey, I'm a 
>> responsible adult, never been arrested, I've never committed 
>> any acts of violence, even had a security clearance for a 
>> time. If the criteria is _solely_ 'the actor and the act', 
>> why shouldn't I be able to do that?
>> 
>> Why shouldn't _any_ one who has never had any history of 
>> violent behavior _not_ be allowed to own weapons of war? 
>> It's not like people with no history of violence have _ever_ 
>> engaged in a mass shooting....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>Well, you could.
>
>Tedious lengthy process plus $200 will get you your very own 
>  NFA tax stamp, as about a half a million* of your friends 
>and neighbors have now. Legal since the 1930s (unregulated 
>before that).  While an actual problem pre-WWII, modern 
>examples of licensed automatic weapons used in crime of any 
>sort is unknown.
>
>By applying, you agree to allow ATF inspectors to view your 
>NFA weapon and any other weapons at any time and they 
>actually do engage in 'pop' inspections without notice. You 
>also agree to not transfer to anyone who does not show the 
>correct forms and paid tax stamp.
>
>Get started now!
>https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-4-application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204/download
>
>
>*
>https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-reveals-the-number-of-registered-machine-guns/
>
>p.s. Aside from you and I, responsible citizens both, 
>prohibited persons including criminal illegal aliens besides 
>our own felons, have been increasingly drawn to china made 
>auto sears for popular pistols. They are distributed through 
>the china to Mexico drug chain very effectively. This is an 
>actual problem now, and taking uncle Bob's AR from his 
>closet will not change that criminal behavior.

Didn't Frankie, way back when, complain about a  neighbor who had a
machine gun in his jeep?
-- 
Cheers,

John B.