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From: joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) ---
 mindless robots
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 12:42:57 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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Am Mon, 14 Apr 2025 17:48:36 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 4/14/2025 4:29 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Sun, 13 Apr 2025 16:00:43 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 4/13/2025 3:00 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 4/13/2025 3:59 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 4/13/2025 3:54 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Fri, 11 Apr 2025 10:56:32 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 4/11/2025 3:24 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2025 08:57, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No proof of this principle has been shown so its use is not
>>>>>>>>> valid.
>>>>>>>> No proof of Peano's axioms or Euclid's fifth postulate has been
>>>>>>>> shown.
>>>>>>>> That doesn't mean we can't use them.
>>>>>>>> Mr Olcott can have his principle if he likes, but only by EITHER
>>>>>>>> proving it (which, as you say, he has not yet done) OR by taking
>>>>>>>> it as axiomatic, leaving the world of mainstream computer science
>>>>>>>> behind him,
>>>>>>>> constructing his own computational 'geometry' so to speak, and
>>>>>>>> abandoning any claim to having overturned the Halting Problem.
>>>>>>>> Navel contemplation beckons.
>>>>>>>> Axioms are all very well, and he's free to invent as many as he
>>>>>>>> wishes,
>>>>>>>> but nobody else is obliged to accept them.
>>>>>>> *Simulating termination analyzer Principle*
>>>>>>> It is always correct for any simulating termination analyzer to
>>>>>>> stop simulating and reject any input that would otherwise prevent
>>>>>>> its own termination.
>>>>>> Sure. Why doesn’t the STA simulate itself rejecting its input?
>>>>> Because that is a STUPID idea and categorically impossible because
>>>>> the outermost HHH sees its needs to stop simulating before any inner
>>>>> HHH can possibly see this.
>>>> In other words, you agree that Linz and others are correct that no H
>>>> exists that satisfies these requirements:
>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions)
>>>> X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the
>>>> following mapping:
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed
>>>> directly
>>> No stupid! Those freaking requirements are wrong and anchored in the
>>> ignorance  of rejecting the notion of a simulating termination
>>> analyzer OUT-OF-HAND WITHOUT REVIEW.
>>> As anyone can see HHH MUST REJECT ITS INPUT OR GET STUPIDLY STUCK IN
>>> NON-TERMINATION. If people were not mindless robots they would have
>>> immediately acknowledged this years ago.
>> But why does it not return „I know this halts, but I can’t simulate
>> it”?
> Because it is not a liar and tells the truth for every input in its
> domain.
Aha. Then why does it not simulate it and say that it halts?

-- 
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.