Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: How did Einstein Develop his Field =?UTF-8?B?RXF1YXRpb25zPyAgV2hlbjog?=
 =?UTF-8?B?QS4gSGUgYWRtaXR0ZWQgaGF2aW5nIGxpdHRsZSBtYXRo?=
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 22:09:14 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
Message-ID: <830cf328e06784aca24f51471b0b0b8d@www.novabbs.com>
References: <11ed9ce5561647a339178272953d5c1a@www.novabbs.com> <676bf17f$0$29726$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <27cc03a1ab0488bf362d322e32b4a4dd@www.novabbs.com> <67716585$0$12919$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <058de8e31bcf885d667d37be1d9badf7@www.novabbs.com> <6773a854$0$29719$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <4d257ac660b0a521c889d3d9175ef1c3@www.novabbs.com> <67766d86$0$406$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <94d875d2c4c7a7d6331e267f08b10935@www.novabbs.com> <67770b93$0$29717$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="1716588"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="HcQFdl4zp4UQRQ9N18ivMn6Fl9V8n4SPkK4oZHLgYdQ";
User-Agent: Rocksolid Light
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
X-Rslight-Site: $2y$10$exxEScwXyWftjhQpwrYJJenZPtGgiKkEszNW14/Kk2cLKpYmkpi3u
X-Rslight-Posting-User: a2f761a7401f13abeefca3440f16b2f27b708180
Bytes: 6209
Lines: 119

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 21:56:35 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 10:42:14 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>
>>> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 8:16:21 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 15:06:47 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Dec 2024 11:50:23 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LaurenceClarkCrossen <clzb93ynxj@att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How did Einstein Develop his Field Equations?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When:
>>>>>>>>>> A. He admitted having little math and no ability in non-Euclidean
>>>>>>>>>> geometry.
>>>>>>>>>> B. He always relied on someone else to do his math.
>>>>>>>>>> C. He denied getting it from Hilbert.
>>>>>>>>>> D. He never said who he got it from.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Answer:
>>>>>>>>>> He stole them from Hilbert.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hilbert disagreed,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>> Here are two other versions of the quote;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Every street boy in Gottingen knows as much elliptical geometry as
>>>>>>>> Einstein. But the equations are his."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  "Every boy in the streets of Gottingen understands more about
>>>>>>>> four-dimensional geometry than Einstein. Yet, in spite of that,
>>>>>>>> Einstein did the work and not the mathematicians." — David Hilbert
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is only one way to interpret this. That is Hilbert pointing out
>>>>>>>> that obviously Einstein did not invent the field equations because he
>>>>>>>> could not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is your way, and it is obviously wrong.
>>>>>>> Hilbert chides his fellow mathematicians, and hence himself,
>>>>>>> for not having found the correct equation of general relativity,
>>>>>>> despite their superior technical skills.
>>>>>>> Hilbert goes on to state that:
>>>>>>> In spite of that it was Einstein who got there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may guess what Hilbert did next: (see the ref supplied by RH)
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> On December 4th, Hilbert even nominated Einstein for election as a
>>>>>>> corresponding member of the Göttingen Mathematical Society.
>>>>>>> (So to his own backyard, where all those superior Gottingen
>>>>>>> mathematicians dwelt. It was the highest honour he could bestow
>>>>>>> personally)
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just what you would expect Hilbert to do,
>>>>>>> if he considered Einstein an incompetent bungler
>>>>>>> who had just stolen his results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You had better forget about all this.
>>>>>>> You are wrong about it, period.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stop talking idiocies,
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip abuse, and new irrelevancies]
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you deny that the text I quoted is in the reference you gave?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>
>>>> Everyone can plainly understand Hilbert was pointing out that Einstein
>>>> was not competent to have thought up the field equations. It is utterly
>>>> deceitful to think otherwise. You are so deluded.
>>>
>>> Everyone who is not wearing your blinders can see what Hilbert said,
>>> and what he intended.
>>> He praised Einstein for having found the field equations,
>>> despite his initial lack of the mathematical toolkit needed for it.
>>> Einstein created and learned for himself whatever was needed.
>>>
>>> BTW, in a later note Hilbert expressed admiration,
>>> and a bit of jealousy, at Einsten's ease and speed
>>> in deriving the Mercury precession from the field equations.
>>> "If only I could calculate like you..."
>>>
>>> Jan
>> As usual, you are not the slightest bit persuasive. "...towards the end
>> of his life Einstein admitted to: 'Having been an unscrupulous
>> opportunist.'"- ibid p. 38.
>
> Ah, so you are quote mining again. There are many versions, for example:
> ====
> Einstein portrayed himself, correctly and unapologetically, as someone
> who must appear as "unscrupulous opportunist" to the systematic
> epistemologist by combining realism, idealism, and positivism in order
> to advance his theorizing.
> ====
>
> This is the right attitude with respect to philosophy
> for any scientist who wants to get somewhere.
> Who cares what a 'systematic epistemologist' may think about you?
>
> Better still, don't listen to philosophers at all.
> Feynman for example: "Philosophy of Science is as useful to scientists
> as Ornithology is to birds." (unsourced)
>
> Jan
You dress up the emperor in gauze. Through it we can see him appear as
he truly is, an "unscrupulous opportunist" charlatan.