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From: john larkin <JL@gct.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: kids these days
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:42:42 -0700
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On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh. I just hired one.
>>>>
>>>>There is a lot of truth in that article.
>>>>I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing 
>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
>>>>One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
>>>>and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
>>>>a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
>>>>build  proto circuits.
>>>>
>>>>Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
>>>>and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
>>>>thing), the works.
>>>>As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
>>>>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
>>>>I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
>>>>to sync some remote location,
>>>>turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
>>>>Did not they tell you that?
>>>> (Must have missed that :-) ).
>>>>
>>>>It all depends,.
>>>>Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
>>>
>>>He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
>>>not to hire them. :-)
>>
>>Yes I did read that posting
>>Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
>>to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
>>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
>>value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
>>and the temperature and light intensity...
>>for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
>>So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
>>An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
>>And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal, 
>> And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
>>And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
>>but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
>>will change the outcome.
>>So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
>>Those would often go high in teefee sets...
>>
>>...
>
>Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
>anyway.
>The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
>
>Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
>grads, it seems. :(

I use 10 volts and 9K and 1K, which really hints at the answer.

If they get that one right, I ask them if they have anything else to
say about the situation. One time in a thousand they might. I can keep
hoping.

Circuit design is something of a lost art these days.