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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 10:09:54 +0800 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 77 Message-ID: <853816e160c7b3fe75c71f0728e72989d9fb2e41.camel@gmail.com> References: <vv97ft$3fg66$1@dont-email.me> <vvnh9u$3hd96$1@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org> <vvno4e$3in62$2@dont-email.me> <5b14da4260c0b7e3235ce05f752c092fade4d70e.camel@gmail.com> <vvnsae$3in62$9@dont-email.me> <11cc09876004107c47467b9481f614f45f450f2c.camel@gmail.com> <vvnu9k$3k258$2@dont-email.me> <674a661e498281cca55b322cbd5905a1988a6171.camel@gmail.com> <vvnvut$3kher$3@dont-email.me> <088556c03067d8de7184bf88dd01cc6b8c99ba1b.camel@gmail.com> <vvo1ni$3l14p$1@dont-email.me> <c09f468e8485c22150cedb12a9010b401f292054.camel@gmail.com> <vvo58a$3lnkd$1@dont-email.me> <dc76ef3215a83481dfddc40c466bb9ebc0e77341.camel@gmail.com> <vvo709$3m1oc$1@dont-email.me> <b503e969e23dd1b2a6201ba78c82c9ff7906eaae.camel@gmail.com> <vvo9e8$3m1oc$3@dont-email.me> <b9cec56c1d257e09fdf8043f02f123a4243de6e1.camel@gmail.com> <vvoife$3ofmu$1@dont-email.me> <09cea75db07408dc9203aca3fb74408ad3a095b4.camel@gmail.com> <vvoubl$3qtsi$1@dont-email.me> <bc4fb153ff914177dba706ce6e0dfb467e2126eb.camel@gmail.com> <vvp04i$3r5li$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 04:09:56 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1aa223d640888d616762f0efff606324"; logging-data="4039372"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/5+tXV6nr87AtO9mvPgb9Z" User-Agent: Evolution 3.54.3 (3.54.3-1.fc41) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ErdOfGWJObsGzOY9R6G9aK2kZ6Q= In-Reply-To: <vvp04i$3r5li$3@dont-email.me> Bytes: 4610 On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:56 -0500, olcott wrote: > On 5/10/2025 8:44 PM, wij wrote: > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:26 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > On 5/10/2025 8:17 PM, wij wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 17:03 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > On 5/10/2025 4:44 PM, wij wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 14:29 -0500, olcott wrote: > > > > > > > On 5/10/2025 2:02 PM, wij wrote: > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > You don't know the counter example in the HP proof, your D is not t= he case what HP says. > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Sure I do this is it! (as correctly encoded in C) > > >=20 > > > typedef void (*ptr)(); > > > int HHH(ptr P); > > >=20 > > > int DD() > > > { > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 int Halt_Status =3D HHH(DD); > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if (Halt_Status) > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HERE: goto HERE; > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 return Halt_Status; > > > } > > >=20 > > > int main() > > > { > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 HHH(DD); > > > } > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > > Try to convert it to TM language to know you know nothing. > >=20 >=20 > I spent 22 years on this. I started with the Linz text >=20 > When =C4=A4 is applied to =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 > =C4=A4.q0 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4= =E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* =C4=A4.qy =E2=88=9E > =C2=A0=C2=A0 or > =C4=A4.q0 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4= =E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=8A=A2* =C4=A4.qn >=20 > (a) =C4=A4 copies its input =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 > (b) =C4=A4 invokes embedded_H =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2= =9F=A9 > (c) embedded_H simulates =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F= =A9 ... >=20 > Thus =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4=E2=9F=A9 correctly simulate= d by embedded_H > cannot possibly reach its simulated final halt state > =E2=9F=A8=C4=A4.qn=E2=9F=A9 >=20 > > To refute the HP, you need to understand what it exactly means in TM. >=20 > I have known this for 22 years. A working TM.=C2=A0Build it explicitly from transition function, then expla= in=20 your derivation. You know nothing. > > Assembly (or C) also work, but you need to understand more details and > > be able to map every assembly instruction or C expressions to TM langua= ge. > > The form of the DD above (in some books maybe) is for layman to underst= and, > > which is not exactly the case that the HP provides. Don't be silly. > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20