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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: ChatGPT explains why HHH(DDD) correctly rejects its input even
 though the executed DDD() halts
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 10:43:15 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 10/11/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 10/11/2024 10:12 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 10/11/24 10:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/6709e046-4794-8011-98b7-27066fb49f3e
>>>
>>> This link is live for the world. You can click on it
>>> and try to convince ChatGPT that HHH is wrong to reject
>>> DDD because the executed DDD does halt.
>>>
>>> It will explain your mistake in clear simple language.
>>>
>>> *The paper that this refers to*
>>> Simulating Termination Analyzer H is Not Fooled by Pathological Input D
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/ 
>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Like this
>>
>> Note, the conclusion, the answer that HHH gives is based on a 
>> theoretical context that (to paraphrase) don't actually exist.
>>
>> It admits that DDD does halt, and halt because the HHH that it calls 
>> does what it was supposed to do.
>> The only justification for giving the wrong answer is that it is HHH 
>> doesn't need to do what it is defined to do.
>>
>> I will ask you, is this the sort of world that you ACTUALLY WANT?
>>
>> You have taught Chat GPT that it is ok to lie if you can justify it.
>>
> 
> https://chatgpt.com/share/6709e046-4794-8011-98b7-27066fb49f3e
> Try to tell ChatGPT that. You don't even have to login.
> Click on the link. I tried this from my cell phone.
> 
> The only input that it has is what you can see that
> I gave it. ChatGPT can explain your mistakes much
> more clearly than I can.
> 

I guess you can't read, as that is exactly what I did, and then listed a 
summary of what it replied.

Chat GPT, because you lied to it about what a Halt Decider must do, goes 
to great effort (like you did) to justify why the nature of reality 
isn't important.

Part of the problem is you never told it that the HHH that DDD calls is, 
and must be, the exact same code as is deciding on it, and thus must 
behave the same way, and DDD can rely on that fact.

Your failure to understand, and teach this, (and in fact LIE about it) 
is what makes Chat GPT lie about what is the correct answer.

Note, in the section headed "Why DDD() is Considered Non-Halting" Chat 
GPT, points out that its answer is just "theoretical" (as a way to 
distance itself from the problems of reality).

This error is repeated in the section labeled "The Misunderstanding" as 
it says that if DDD() was left unchecked, it would be non-terminating, 
while that is NOT the behavior of DDD unchecked, because the HHH that it 
calls must do exactly what the HHH that was asked does.

Thus, all you have done is proven that if your answer might be correct 
in some impossible universe where deterministic program code doesn't 
deterministically do what it is programed to do.

THAT seems to be the world you live in, the world where you get to 
assume the impossible happens, and which just totally blows your 
arguement to smithereens by all the contradictions it makes.

My guess is you are going to spend all of eternity trying to put all 
those pieces together again to try to find what is actual true, because 
you chose not to accept it today.