Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com>
Newsgroups: comp.misc
Subject: Re: Schneier, Data and Goliath: no hope for privacy
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 13:28:58 -0300
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote:
>> D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>> 
>>> On Thu, 20 Feb 2025, Salvador Mirzo wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This is the truth. I'm a contrarian kind of guy, so when the world
>>>>> goes git, I go fossil. ;) Jokes aside, I like the concept of one
>>>>> binary and how it works for my own personal use case.
>>>>
>>>> I went fossil when I had to teach a class.  I thought git was more
>>>> complicated than fossil.  But it turns out that fossil was seen as
>>>> crazily complicated by nearly all students (anyway).  I think fossil is
>>>> just fine, though I confess I prefer the file system over a database.
>>>
>>> This is very interesting! What was it that the student thought was crazy
>>> complicated compared with git?
>> 
>> Not compared to git.  They did not get to see git.  They just hated
>> fossil to the point of almost giving up on the whole course altogether.
>> Very likely they knew that other courses would give them the same
>> credits and they could try it afresh on the next semester.
>> 
>> I don't have much information.  The command line seemed an awful
>> experience to them.  I suspect that they thought that the command line
>> was archaic means of system interface and that perhaps it was just a
>> teacher idiosyncrasy.
>
> For some (most? all?) they likely had only ever used a "touch/feely" 
> interface (i.e., phone) and so, yes, they were very ill equiped to even 
> comprehend a command line, much less be productive in one.
>
>> This experience gave me the following feeling---they ask for real-world,
>> pratical experience, but they're not up to an introduction to the tools
>> used in the real-world.
>
> They likely have never been out of their smartphone protected bubble.  
>
>>> I have taught classes with git (basics) and at the end of the day,
>>> regardless of if you use git or fossil, it just requires a few simple
>>> commands to get started at the basic level (we were not discussing
>>> rebasing and huge software projects).
>> 
>> I think it boils down to a lot more because these are compouter users
>> that even ``environment variable'' is a never-seen concept.  I watched
>> them opening a c:\> prompt on their Windows system, slowlying typing up
>> their very long path to their project, say, and then doing it again on
>> the next class---paths with spaces and other complicated symbols.
>
> Which is (almost) the same they would do using a GUI or their phone.  
> Wherever the file manager defaults, they then meticiously "step" their 
> way over to where they want to be.  The concept of saving a 'bookmark' 
> (of sorts) to "go directly there" is likely foreign to them.  In fact, 
> they sound like the types who open the google search page, then type a 
> URL into the google search box, to go to that URL.

I think you comprehend me pretty well. :)