Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Hex string literals (was Re: C23 thoughts and opinions)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 15:00:13 -0700
Organization: None to speak of
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <87frt9zzbm.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
References: <v2l828$18v7f$1@dont-email.me>
	<87msoh5uh6.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<f08d2c9f-5c2e-495d-b0bd-3f71bd301432@gmail.com>
	<v2nbp4$1o9h6$1@dont-email.me> <v2ng4n$1p3o2$1@dont-email.me>
	<87y18047jk.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<87msoe1xxo.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v2sh19$2rle2$2@dont-email.me>
	<87ikz11osy.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v2v59g$3cr0f$1@dont-email.me>
	<87plt8yxgn.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <v31rj5$o20$1@dont-email.me>
	<87cyp6zsen.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v34gi3$j385$1@dont-email.me>
	<874jahznzt.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v36nf9$12bei$1@dont-email.me>
	<87v82b43h6.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<87iky830v7.fsf_-_@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v4p0dv$jeb2$1@dont-email.me>
	<87cyof14rd.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
	<v4s3i8$1cjdr$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Injection-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 00:00:14 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="14c46e9d4441e9b6d7e573ea203ad727";
	logging-data="1632188"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+mSpCNKQepq2vDAbT9ba6f"
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pKnQdeTOhWU/gvuM7moz2qef0+A=
	sha1:fVDukVYoF29vzBTE5gPnbuTot/g=
Bytes: 4365

David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
> On 18/06/2024 02:19, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
>> I forgot about digit separators.
>> C23 adds the option to use apostrophes as separators in numeric
>> constants: 123'456'789 or 0xdead'beef, for example.  (This is
>> borrowed from C++.  Commas are more commonly used in real life,
>> at least in my experience, but that wouldn't work given the other
>> meanings of commas.)
>
> Commas would be entirely unsuitable here, since half the world uses
> decimal commas rather than decimal points.  I think underscores are a 
> nicer choice, used by many languages, but C++ could not use
> underscores due to their use in user-defined literals, and C followed
> C++.

C already uses '.' as the decimal point, though half the world uses ','.
That's already US-centric.  ',' is unusable as a digit separator because
`123,456` already has any of several meanings, depending on the context.
If it weren't for that issue, I think that using ',' as a digit separator
would be no more problematic than using '.' as a decimal point.  And C++
and C23 already use the apostrophe as a digit separator, which is likely
to be jarring to anyone outside Switzerland.

In any case, as discussed, I'm not proposing an ignorable digit
separator for hex string literals.

[...]

> I don't see the benefit here.  This is C - the programmer is expected
> to get the type right, and I think it would be rare to get it wrong
> (or worse wrong than forgetting "unsigned") in a case like this.  So
> the extra type checking here has little or no benefit.  (In general, I
> am a fan of stronger type checking, but it is only important if it
> catches real errors.)
>
> The end result is completely identical to the user - adding
> "hex(true)" makes no difference to the generated code.  Thus it is
> just an implementation detail which the user should not have to deal
> with.

The point isn't to change the generated code.  The point is to let
programmers say more directly what they mean: "Treat the contents
of this file as an array of unsigned char", rather than the existing
"Treat the contents of this file as a sequence of comma-separated
integer constant expressions (which, by the way, I'm going to use
in an initializer for an array of unsigned char)".

(I don't think either of us is going to change our minds on the
esthetics.  And yes, that sentence isn't entirely grammatically
correct.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */