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Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> Newsgroups: alt.usage.english,sci.lang Subject: Re: [embonpoint] was once a completely positive term in France Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 11:43:35 +0000 Lines: 41 Message-ID: <87h68xojo8.fsf@parhasard.net> References: <v1ednt$3h9pa$1@dont-email.me> <6c0da11eb5eb92a21d75b8d867cdf277@www.novabbs.com> <a0d9dd1146753f2af4ec4ff5eb6bcaeb@www.novabbs.com> <85dfa5191c254d7b6d4971efc4cb9129@www.novabbs.com> <v4lccq$3mt2j$3@dont-email.me> <v4lf6d$3rce9$1@dont-email.me> <9b862f823220569227306f1baf37a020@www.novabbs.com> <a0dcee78b84c2e75b132e10392e577d0@www.novabbs.com> <v4m327$2ca8e$1@news.trigofacile.com> <v4m54q$3uuql$1@dont-email.me> <v4mc05$7db$1@dont-email.me> <877ceod9r4.fsf@parhasard.net> <v4o3re$akkm$1@dont-email.me> <8734kjw7rp.fsf@parhasard.net> <vfinet$3ngn4$1@dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net /kJ1fgMNFyA7hwjSO49RvwjZYxfxuW/JTXHvgK+5uys1OW9wt7 Cancel-Lock: sha1:INVRouW5e85Sn2tsJZbhForkFoI= sha1:9iEfoCEJ/DDK9qzmcxdpiGfz3Cc= sha256:/S/lAEXoApCkw6ofW1DNsvoJmdtFtjpw33+UTt13pMM= User-Agent: Gnus/5.101 (Gnus v5.10.10) XEmacs/21.5-b35 (Linux-aarch64) Bytes: 3365 Ar an séú lá is fiche de mí Deireadh Fómhair, scríobh Peter Moylan: > [...] Pronunciation of the letter r seems to vary wildly between languages. I > can do both alveolar and uvular r in most positions in a word, if I > concentrate, and that covers a fair few languages, but it does require > concentration. Certainly I can pronounce Irish dearg and déag so that > they sound different. The difficulty for me is more about hearing the > difference. That’s a surprise to me. Can you pick up traces of an Irish accent among Australians? This fellow: https://jamohanlon.com/science/ , for example, was on Quirks and Quarks, a Canadian radio show I listen to via podcasts on long drives, and his Australian has a lot more more post-vocalic Rs together with the Northern Ireland [œʏ] for <ou>; if you can pick that up, you can hear the difference. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/this-spider-scientist-wants-us-to-appreciate-the-world-s-8-legged-wonders-1.7358310 for the full broadcast. > I can also do a flapped r before a vowel, but to my great annoyance I am > unable to do any sort of trilled r. Exception: when singing the Edith Piaf song > with > the lines > Balayé les amours > Avec leurs trémolos > I do make an effort to do "trémolos" with an uvular trill, and sometimes > I succeed. Great. It took me, I think, a year, certainly many months, to get the alveolar trill right. What worked for me was attempting to make a [h] at the same time as my normal /r/ sound (while going on walks and in other contexts where no-one was listening); this lowered the back of the tongue, which makes the anterior end of the tongue more likely to trill, and eventually I could pronounce pero and perro distinctly in Spanish without problems. -- ‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out / How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’ (C. Moore)