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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: Re: Lisp history: IF, etc. Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 18:06:43 -0300 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 61 Message-ID: <87v84vecyk.fsf@yaxenu.org> References: <uu54la$3su5b$6@dont-email.me> <20240329101248.556@kylheku.com> <uu6t9h$dq4d$1@dont-email.me> <20240329104716.777@kylheku.com> <uu8p02$uebm$1@dont-email.me> <20240330112105.553@kylheku.com> <uudrfg$2cskm$1@dont-email.me> <87r0fp8lab.fsf@tudado.org> <uuehdj$2hshe$1@dont-email.me> <87wmpg7gpg.fsf@tudado.org> <LISP-20240402085115@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <20240402084057.881@kylheku.com> <86h6gjpq3i.fsf_-_@williamsburg.bawden.org> <m3frw2vlok.fsf@leonis4.robolove.meer.net> <86cyr6pb2l.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <875xwy412p.fsf@nightsong.com> <868r1up0wk.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <871q7m3wrj.fsf@nightsong.com> <86zfu9ooux.fsf@williamsburg.bawden.org> <87frw03b4j.fsf@nightsong.com> <877chbfs00.fsf@yaxenu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 21:06:43 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1d17e5fb4a6d76076c70bf793d4b7893"; logging-data="1696072"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19U+2VaUzQjNZumjhNM0fk3nZFTxI8jJNQ=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:Va8+ihQFYYCChu8bW8SL2i+7yu0= sha1:zPiZRMZdFi2W95lqqNKcX+Grl+s= Bytes: 4802 Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes: > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > >> Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> writes: >>> It's a common misconception that McCarthy was trying to turn Lambda >>> Calculus into a programming language. ... He added LAMBDA (and LABEL) >>> because he needed LAMBDA in order to define recursive functions, but >>> as he himself often admitted, he didn't really understand Lambda >>> Calculus, he just needed the notation. >> >> I see, yes, and this is confirmed by his History of Lisp article. His >> Wikipedia biography also surprised me a bit. For some reason I had >> thought of him as an academic mathematical logician who later somehow >> got involved with computers, but it was more like the other way around. >> Thanks. > > His PhD was in mathematics---differential equations. He would think up > things like a simple function that is continuous but nowhere > differentiable on the real line [1]. He was a mathematician by all > accounts. It's pretty hard to remove mathematics from computer science. > The culture seems to be that if a mathematician contributes more to the > field of computer science, he is called a computer scientist. > > I also agree that he was a logician: he worked on a mathematical basis > for computer science. A mathematical basis for computer science must be > classified as logic. He was interested in proving programs were > correct. His idea of a conditional expression is precisely to write > mathematical functions in high precision. Mathematics in high > precision---that's a logician. > > The creation of LISP by John McCarthy was surely not at first with > intention of a programming language. In fact, it was Steve Russell, his > student at the time, that first had the idea of implementing EVAL and > did it. I believe McCarthy was even somewhat surprised because, then, > he did not think of LISP having that kind of purpose. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- What happened next was that, some time in late 1958, Steve Russell, one of McCarthy's grad students, looked at this definition of eval and realized that if he translated it into machine language, the result would be a Lisp interpreter. This was a big surprise at the time. Here is what McCarthy said about it later in an interview: Steve Russell said, look, why don't I program this eval..., and I said to him, ho, ho, you're confusing theory with practice, this eval is intended for reading, not for computing. But he went ahead and did it. That is, he compiled the eval in my paper into [IBM] 704 machine code, fixing bugs, and then advertised this as a Lisp interpreter, which it certainly was. So at that point Lisp had essentially the form that it has today.... Suddenly, in a matter of weeks I think, McCarthy found his theoretical exercise transformed into an actual programming language-- and a more powerful one than he had intended. Source: Paul Graham's ``Revenge of the Nerds'', May 2002. https://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---