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From: john larkin <JL@gct.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: 1GW (sic) Battery Energy Storage Systems
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 19:15:20 -0800
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:55:35 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 24/11/2024 18:20, john larkin wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 17:58:35 +0000, Martin Brown
>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 24/11/2024 16:44, TTman wrote:
>>>> On 24/11/2024 11:40, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> There is a startup company in the UK called NatPower (no relation to
>>>>> the real National Power PLC aka NPower) claiming to have over 25 years
>>>>> of experience in BESS. They are proposing 1GW (sic) BESS in all sorts
>>>>> of brown and green field UK sites. They have no track record that I
>>>>> can find. Does anyone here know of any real international project(s)
>>>>> that they have actually done and more importantly *delivered*?
>>>>> (their own PR or its uncritical repetition in the press doesn't count)
>>>>>
>>>>> Their website is very slick indeed but I suspect that beauty is only
>>>>> skin deep. I am interesting in evidence of substance not PR fluff.
>> 
>> You've got to have energy before you can store it!
>
>There is plenty of energy in the form of windfarms that are quite 
>literally paid to *not* supply electricity when the wind blows any 
>faster than average. National grid CBA to put enough capacity into the 
>North South interconnects and so there is a huge surplus in the North 
>and a deficit in the South around London and the South East.
>
>Cube law dependence of output power on windspeed means it isn't worth 
>putting in the cables in to move the highest possible peak power levels 
>(and that is a fair engineering compromise). However, right now they are 
>well short of a proper solution and a lot of Scottish and offshore wind 
>energy producers are paid to feather their blades!
>
>https://news.sky.com/story/britons-paying-hundreds-of-millions-to-turn-off-wind-turbines-as-network-cant-handle-the-power-they-make-on-the-windiest-days-12822156
>
>Building big BESS storage up North won't help at all. It will just alter 
>who they pay the "don't add your electricity to the grid" money to.
>
>The stored energy needs to be already in the South before conditions get 
>tight since the N-S interconnectors have essentially no spare capacity 
>left at times of peak load. That was in part what caused the spectacular 
>fail when an insignificant little power station was struck by lightning 
>and triggered a cascade failure across large swathes of the country in 
>2019. It didn't help that UK trains required an engineering reset by a 
>specially trained operative with the right gear when power restored.
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/10/uk-energy-watchdog-demands-answers-after-major-power-cut-england-wales
>
>Problem is that land prices in the south are much higher...
>
>> About all the UK has now is coal. Its NG reserves are mostly used up.
>
>Last coal fired power station shut down last month.
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c98ye7ewwlwo
>
>Dash for gas was how they met their CO2 reduction targets but now we are 
>a bit screwed since gas prices are sky high and we pay top market rates 
>for it (even though we still have active gas fields). They even did away 
>with the bulk gas storage facility so that we were literally hand to 
>mouth on the spot market for gas at the start of the Ukraine war.
>
>There is some ageing nuclear still running and large scale biomass 
>greenwashed wood burning facilities like Drax (sounds like a Bond villain).
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68381160


Having electricity used to be normal.