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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Suspension losses
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 11:05:44 -0500
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On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 08:20:47 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 1/12/2025 8:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/12/2025 3:33 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>> Am Sat, 11 Jan 2025 19:46:50 -0500 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>>>
>>>> To me, a big advantage is the ability to _look_ at a 
>>>> mechanical device
>>>> and _see_ what's wrong....
>>>
>>>> That, and the fact I can often affect a repair.
>>>
>>> I prefer devices that don't need repair over their lifetime. 
>> 
>> The weakness I see with that is the assumption that 
>> "lifetime" is defined as "the amount of time it works." if 
>> something stops working, its lifetime is over! Throw it out!
>> 
>> As I said, I hate the Kleenex ethic - "It's no good any 
>> more, just throw it away."
>> 
>>>>> Don't know.  We use devices like the blue one in the 
>>>>> following picture.
>>>>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/ 
>>>>> W%C3%A4rmflasche1.jpg>
>>>>> and better isolating blankets. No electricity 
>>>>> necessary. :-)
>>>>
>>>> :-) But you imply that _I'm_ the one insufficiently modern?
>>>
>>> No. I doubt that "being modern" is a reasonable benchmark 
>>> or measure.
>>> This cuts both ways. :-)
>>>
>>>>> A few lights in our house are switched by set of 2 x 3 
>>>>> inexpensive
>>>>> wireless sockets including two remote controls, that I 
>>>>> bought eleven
>>>>> years ago. I've still to replace the batteries. Two of 
>>>>> the sockets are
>>>>> still spares, I have a replacement cell for the remote 
>>>>> controls stored
>>>>> which might live even longer. Standard type, used in 
>>>>> garage openers and
>>>>> burglar alarms, too. Selecting a channel and paring one 
>>>>> of the four
>>>>> buttons of a remote control with one or more of the 
>>>>> sockets is as easy
>>>>> as pie, using a line of dip switches inside those 
>>>>> devices.  Quite
>>>>> similar to pairing switches and derailleur on our bicyles.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I avoid having essential functionality in my house 
>>>>> depend on
>>>>> wireless connections, I enjoy having the option, for 
>>>>> certain use cases,
>>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> Yuck.
>>>
>>> You don't have a single remote control in your house? Not 
>>> even for the
>>> TV? That's rare.
>> 
>> I've got more remotes than I want. The TV's power button and 
>> channel changing buttons are not even visible. They're 
>> hidden and practically un-labeled on the back edge of the 
>> device, so a remote is necessary to even turn it on. I pump 
>> the TV sound through our stereo amplifier, which has its own 
>> remote (whose volume control seems to have stopped working), 
>> the CD/DVD player has a separate remote, etc. etc. If we had 
>> a friend house sit for us, I'd have to write a manual on how 
>> to run the system.
>> 
>> A couple years ago we were given a Christmas gift of battery 
>> powered LED "candles." The could change colors - by use of a 
>> remote! Why should a candle need a remote?
>> 
>> Same for a ceiling fan. Ours change speed by use of a pull 
>> chain. I'll never lose the pull chain. I would certainly 
>> misplace a remote.
>> 
>>> I still have a box of old, but still working IR remote 
>>> controls,
>>> from devices that broke many years ago.  I collected these 
>>> to control
>>> gadgets like this one
>>> <https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/basteleien/microcontroller/ 
>>> ws2812/DSC_3564-DSC_3566_fused.JPG>
>>> Can you guess what this blinkenlight does?
>> 
>> Nope.
>> 
>>> Parts a an IR receiver, a PIC 12F1840 microcontroller, a 
>>> stripe of eight
>>> RGB LED, and a remote control from a CD Player that broke 
>>> long before
>>> 2014, when I built that gadget.  The aforementioned $1.50 
>>> controller
>>> (single quantity, digikey) does everything from IR 
>>> decoding to
>>> controlling the LED stripe.
>>>
>>> Somewhat later, I built something larger using a different 
>>> part (an
>>> ESP8266) for illuminating the house bar of one of our 
>>> kids, using about
>>> one meter of densely placed RGB LED, controlled via WIFI, 
>>> doing a whole
>>> series of different colorful light effects. Extendable 
>>> with new effects
>>> by uploading short LUA snippets, of course. :-) I was told 
>>> that it was
>>> used again at a New Year's celebration, so obviously it is 
>>> still
>>> working.
>> 
>> There's a part of me that wishes I had your skills and 
>> knowledge. I occasionally dream up little electronic 
>> projects that I lack the knowledge to design or build. I've 
>> thought about educating myself, but soon realized there are 
>> many other things I'd prefer to learn.
>> 
>>> My wife still uses an almost as old bicycle for everyday 
>>> rides around
>>> the corner.  Didn't have to strip and power coat it, 
>>> because it came
>>> that way, when she bought it.
>>>
>>> But like me, she is glad that I build two road bikes in 
>>> 2023, using
>>> wireless electronic shifting that you dislike so much. 
>>> Without, she
>>> wouldn't have been able to do some of those very enjoyable 
>>> tours
>>> throughout the region that we did in 2023 and in 2024. 
>> 
>> Can you explain? It's hard for me to visualize a tour that 
>> would _require_ electronic shifting. The vast majority of my 
>> touring and riding miles have been done without even index 
>> shifting.
>> 
>
>That's very personal; some riders prefer fixed (although not 
>this morning. It's bitter cold with a wind here).
>
>For riders with prior wrist/finger injuries, advancing 
>arthritis and/or general age related decrepitude, Ergo/STi 
>are difficult if not painful.  For most riders, they're 
>perfectly adequate. As are downtube friction shifters for 
>others.

My first external geared bicycles had friction shifters that I never
mastered to where I didn't have to check by looking or listening. I
don't remember which of my subsequent bicycle upgrades was the first
to use index shifting, but I know I know the Schwinn (I think it was a
Varsity) had it because I remember working on dialing it in. It wasn't
until the summer of '23 that I got the trigger shifters. It took a few
tries before I figured out to use them on my handlebar configuration,
they are a definite improvement in that am taking more care at
intersections by slowing and/or stopping.

--
C'est bon
Soloman