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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating
 itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 18:03:51 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <8f1c5d657f9ebf9a7b5d3f09c34dd00acb5ec694@i2pn2.org>
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On 11/22/24 5:57 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 11/22/2024 2:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 11/22/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 11/22/2024 12:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 11/22/24 1:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 11/22/2024 12:07 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 10:36:25 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Am Fri, 22 Nov 2024 08:50:33 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 6:20 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 15:19:43 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:11 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 09:19:03 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/24 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject line does not specify which mapping and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no larger context that could specify that. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be "a mapping".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But it gets the wrong answer for the halting problem, as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD dpes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH does not halt.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. DDD halts and HHH should return that.
>>>>>>>>>>> IT IS NOT THE SAME INSTANCE OF DDD.
>>>>>>>>>> All instances of DDD behave the same (if it is a pure function 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the HHH called from it doesn't switch behaviour by a static
>>>>>>>>>> variable).
>>>>>>>>> Only HHH is required to be a pure function, DDD is expressly 
>>>>>>>>> allowed
>>>>>>>>> to be any damn thing.
>>>>>>>> TMs don't have side effects, such as reading a static Root 
>>>>>>>> variable.
>>>>>>> The static root variable has not one damn thing to do with the
>>>>>>> fact that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return"
>>>>>>> instruction.
>>>>>> It does. If it were always set to True, all instances of the same HHH
>>>>>> would abort and halt. Why else would it be there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WE HAVE NOT BEEN TALKING ABOUT ABORT/NOT ABORT
>>>>> FOR THREE FREAKING MONTHS. WAKE THE F-CK UP.
>>>>>
>>>>> WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>>> REACHING ITS FINAL HALT STATE
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, does HHH abort or not abort it emulation?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of the infinite set of every HHH that emulates N steps
>>> of DDD no DDD ever reaches its final halt state.
>>>
>>
>> So?
>>
>> Without including HHH in the input, at least implicitly, they couldn't 
>> have done what you said, so you are admitting that the actual input 
>> DDD must include the code of HHH, or you are just a liar.
>>
> 
> You are just trying to get away with changing the subject.
> The question is: Can DDD emulated by any HHH possibly
> reach its final halt state.
> 

The question (in computation theory) CAN'T be that, is it isn't a valid 
question, as it isn't an objective quesiton about just DDD.

Sorry, but you are just showing your stupidity with trying to pass of 
your strawman as a replacement for the halting problem.

You don't even seem to know enough about what is in the domain of the 
logic you are talking about.

Your DDD, being a non-leaf C function, can't be emulated, and doesn't 
have "halting" as a property to be decided.

Thus, HHH can't emulate "the input", but needs to improperly presume 
things not stated, and thus you logic is just invalid.

You are showing that you are nothing but a ignorant pathological liar.

If you want to talk about some mythological hypothetical alternate 
system, you first need to fully DEFINE it, its axioms and its rules.

This, as you have made clear, is clearly beyound your ability, so you 
just resort to your ignorant lying about what you are talking about, use 
meaningless double-talk and equivocations and every fallacy you can get 
your hands on.