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From: Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Electric vehicle battery fires, what to know and how to react
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:19:44 -0700
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On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 11:42:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened
>liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
><1qyubga.1kavnyx1f0m91cN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:
>
>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Electric vehicle battery fires - what to know and how to react
>>> It's very rare, but lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles can catch fire.
>>> 
>>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/electric-vehicle-battery-fires-what-t
>>> o-know-and-how-to-react/
>>> 
>>> Good to know how to react when you electric car is on fire...
>>
>>So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
>>carrying one. 
>
>I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
>Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
>I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
>My bike will be OK...
>Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.

ALL modern cell phones use LiPo pocket cells.  If your cell phone has
a shoulder strap and is quite heavy, it might be Lithium-Ion. However,
if your cell phone battery is small, flat, and cannot be removed, it's
a LiPo pocket cell.  Same with a variety of battery powered
rechargeable devices (Bluetooth speakers, recent rechargeable TV
remote controls, drones, RC toys, walkie-talkies, COB-LED flashlights,
etc).  

"10 Dangerous Lipo Battery Mistakes - Fire and explosion causes"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrlLe6PRhyo>
Good advice.

>Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
>may need a building permit ....

Wind turbine generators usually have a means of "feathering" the
turbine blades to prevent spinning to fast.  The last thing you want a
turbine to do is free-wheel above its maximum RPM rating and launch a
blade through your roof.

>Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
>I have never had a phone on fire....

No phone fires, but we had a dumpster fire at my former office that
was started by a cell phone "battery bank".  This was an early model
that used Li-Ion cylindrical cells (not LiPo).  There have also been
three(?) eBike fires, which also use Li-Ion cylindrical cells with the
added bonus of a home made battery packs and chargers.  I'm not
including the local idiot who decided that only save way to dispose of
a cordless tool battery pack was by first drilling holes in it.

For your amusement, this is a clone Ryobi OP4060 cordless tool battery
purchased on eBay(?):
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/S35ScvADzdoM22gFA>
Notice that it use two different (mismatched) Li-Ion cell types, the
thermistor is not glued to a cell, one of the FETs melted, and the
"fuse" didn't blow.  I inherited three of these from a customer after
he replaced them with OEM batteries.  There was no fire.  I could
repair the packs, but instead, I'll probably scavenge the cells and
use them something else such as flashlights.

According to what I've read, the danger comes from the vapors produced
by overheated electrolyte.  The most common type is a Lithium salt and
an organic solvent mixture.  I would expect that some of this vapor
might be detectable by a hydrocarbon gas detector such as a VoC
(volatile organic compound) gas detector.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=voc+gas+detector&udm=2>
I haven't done anything with this idea yet, but it's on my "yet
another project" list.


-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558