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From: will.dockery@gmail.com (W.Dockery)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: I Met A Girl / Will Dockery
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2025 20:49:47 +0000
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On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 20:06:20 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 19:27:00 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:54:30 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 16:49:22 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 14:27:25 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 14:08:38 +0000, Will-Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zod wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 9:40:55 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I Met A Girl
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I met a girl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By Will Donkey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> She was a little freckled girl
>>>>>>>>>>>> from out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> my high school past.
>>>>>>>>>>>> At this point I kissed her
>>>>>>>>>>>> and put my finger to her hole.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Edited for effect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Real piece of work, that Donkey.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I've wondered if I should censor that link for many years and in
>>>>>>>> the end decided to keep it as I'd written it 43 years ago.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think, in fact, you've already flamed me about this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have, and shall continue to whenever I stumble across it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A poem about fingering a high school girl, is reprehensible regardless
>>>>>>> of whether you set it in a dream.
>>>>
>>>> She wasn't in high school, she was from my high school past.
>>>>
>>>> The year was 1982, five years after my time at Carver High School.
>>>
>>> As per usual in a Will Donkey poem, what you intended to say, and what
>>> you actually wrote are two very different things.
>>>
>>> Nor does the date of the composition (or of the alleged dream) have any
>>> bearing on the content.
>>>
>>> The girl didn't come to you (in your dream) from California; she came to
>>> you "from out of... high school."
>>>
>>> Also, since you hadn't seen her in approximately 5 years, it is unlikely
>>> that your subconscious would have aged her in your dream.  She would
>>> have looked like she did when you last saw her -- five years earlier
>>> when you were in school.
>>>
>>>>>> You missed the context, the girl wasn't in high school when the actual
>>>>>> you described happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She was "out of my high school past" almost a decade before the poem was
>>>>>> written which would make us both in our twenties on May 8 1982.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't understand how to express yourself clearly
>>>>
>>>> In your opinion.
>>>
>>> The English language, when used correctly, is not a matter of opinion,
>>> Donkey.
>>>
>>>> The details are easily understood.
>>>
>>> Obviously not.
>>>
>>> Your poem says that you dreamt about a girl who you recognized (i.e.,
>>> she looked the same), but whose name you couldn't remember (even after
>>> she told it to you twice).  You further say that this girl came to you
>>> from out of the past, when you had both attended the same high school.
>>>
>>> This makes it clear that she was still 16 or 17 in your dream.
>>>
>>> What you meant to say was that you dreamed about a girl who you had
>>> known (barely) in high school, who had spent the last five years living
>>> in California.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, that is not what you actually wrote.
>>>
>>> As I've attempted to explain to you countless times in the past, if
>>> you're going to be a poet, you first have to gain a working knowledge of
>>> (at least) high school level English.
>>>
>>> Your compositional skills are roughly equivalent to those of a 4th
>>> grader when writing posts, and those of a 4th grader who took the short
>>> bus to and school when composing poetry.
>>>
>>> I would urge you to read "Language in Thought and Action," by Samuel
>>> Ichiye Hayakawa... only your reading comprehension level is so poor that
>>> you wouldn't understand it.  You would do better to enroll in a free,
>>> online Basic English course, and slowly work your way up to it.
>>>
>>>>> When yoy say that someone is "from out of my high school past," the
>>>>> implication is that she stepped out of the past.  When someone steps out
>>>>> of your past, they are at the same age they had been in the year that
>>>>> they stepped out of.
>>>>
>>>> No, she was a person I know in high school who reappeared in 1982, five
>>>> years after High school.
>>>
>>> Then you should have said that in your poem.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> You should have said that you dreamed you met someone from your past.
>>>>
>>>> The poem states:
>>>>
>>>> "It was in a dream, we knew each other instantly."
>>>
>>> No, Donkey.  The operative phrase here is not that it happened "in a
>>> dream."  It's one of whether she a) came to you from out of your past,
>>> or b) reappeared in 1982, five years after she'd graduated.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> But even if she was in her twenties in your dream, your poem is still
>>>>> offensive to the nth degree.
>>>>
>>>> It was explicit, agreed.
>>>
>>> It isn't offensive because it's explicit, Donkey. Okay, it is offensive
>>> to Moral Majority types, but that is not what I was referring to.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It is demeaning to women, objectifying
>>>>> them as nothing more than a "hole" to stick your finger (or your willie)
>>>>
>>>> No, that's not true, it was just some sex.
>>>
>>> When you refer to "just some (casual) sex" as putting your "finger to
>>> her hole," you are treating her as if she were an inanimate object.  She
>>> is not a person to you -- she is a "hole."
>>>
>>> You weren't even attracted to her personality, as you say she sounded
>>> "spacey."  Worse yet, you couldn't bother to remember her name in spite
>>> of the fact that she'd told it to you twice.
>>>
>>> To you, she wasn't a person with a valid personality or a name... she
>>> was a just another "hole."
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grown ups in 1982 had sex, fucked, all that sort of thing.
>>>
>>> I graduated high school in 1982, Donkey.  I didn't just walk up to a
>>> girl a hadn't seen in 5 years and proceed to stick my finger in her
>>> vagina.  I know you claim they do things differently in "the deep South"
>>> (cue the dueling banjoes), but that sounds like groping/sexual assault.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> in.  It further implies that you find nothing wrong with groping, and
>>>>> digitally penetrating, a woman you've just met.
>>>>
>>>> We'd known each other about a decade at that time.
>>>
>>> Obviously not very well, since you couldn't remember her name.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The fact that you would post this in your 60s, only shows how
>>>>> insensitive and misogynistic you've remained over the years.
>>>>
>>>> The poem was written on May 8th 1982 and probably isn't something I'd
>>>> write in 2025.
>>>
>>> Why not?  Your writing certainly hasn't evolved any.  If anything, it's
>>> actually gotten worse.
>>>
>>> And the fact that you still post it in 2025 means that you don't see
>>> anything wrong with it.  Much the same way that you don't see anything
>>> wrong in having written a poem about how you'd performed oral sex on a
>>> co-worker (at the local pizzeria -- while you were married, and left it
>>> lying around where your 6-year old son (give or take) could read it and
>>> bring it to the attention of your wife.
>>>
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