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From: George J. Dance@novabbs.com (George J. Dance)
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.arts.poems
Subject: Re: NastyGoon lifts a line
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 23:55:07 +0000
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On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 16:44:20 +0000, HarryLime wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 5:38:14 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2025 1:38:39 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
>>
>>> George J. Dance wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article.php?id=255731&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments
>>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 16:15:27 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain (MPP) aka
>>>> "HarryLime" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I realized from the content of NancyGene's posts that they were
>>>>> intelligent, well-educated, and better written than anyone here.
>>>>> Naturally, I asked them to start contributing to the "Sampler."  And I
>>>>> was right in doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the opening lines of NancyGene's latest poem:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Yesterdays stack up like piles of read newspapers,
>>>>> Cluttering my mind and obstructing my day."
>>>>>
>>>>> That's poetry of the highest quality.
>>>>
>>>> The opening line is very good. It's almost as good as the opening line
>>>> of Robert Creeleys poem, "The Days Pile Up":
>>>>
>>>> "The days pile up like unread newspapers,"
>>>>
>>>> I do hope "Dr." NastyGoon credited Mr. Creeley; otherwise that would be
>>>> something they would call, you know -- "plagiarism".
>>>
>>> True, Robert Creeley wrote a pretty good line, obviously Nancy Gene
>>> agrees.
>>
>> After being forced to read and think about the two opening lines
>> repeatedly the past few days, I have to say that Creeley's metaphor
>> makes sense and NG's, no matter how "poetical" HarryLiar finds it, does
>> not.
>>
>> If the newspapers are "unread", it makes sense that they'd "pile up."
>> You save the paper you didn't have time to read today, hoping you'll
>> have time to read it tomorrow; then you don't have time tomorrow and you
>> now have two unread papers; then three the next day; four the next; so
>> on. Eventually you'll end up with piles of newspapers that you're hoping
>> to read some day when you have the time.
>>
>> That's a great metaphor; the unread newspapers represent all the things
>> one doesn't get to do in a day, all the unfinished business that just
>> keeps piling up and piling up.
>
> Yes, George, that's Creeley's simile.  [Please note the difference
> between "simile" and "metaphor."]

No, HarryLiar. Creeley's simile compared how "The days pile up" with how
"unread newspapers" pile up (which makes sense, as unread newspapers do
pile up if one has no time to read them).

If (as I read him) he's using "The days" to represent "all the things
one doesn't get to do in a day, all the unfinished business," that is
not a simile. It's a differet literary device entirely.

> NancyGene is making a totally different simile than Creeley.  Piled
> newspapers are being compared to two very different things.

> Yes, HarryLiar; we know that much.

> NastyGoon is comparing how "Yesterdays stack up" with how "read
> newspapers" stack up (which doesn't make sense, because read newspapers
> don't stack up on their own; they go into the recycling bin and get
> thrown away).

>> But why would NG, or anyone, save all the newspapers they have already
>> read; why would those "stack up"? Just maybe they have a bird and need
>> to line the bottom of its cage, but they wouldn't have to save every
>> single newspapers for that; they can save the amount they think they
>> need, and throw the rest away. But since we can't read the poem, just
>> the two lines HarryLiar keeps slurping, who knows why they think people
>> save all the newspapers they've already read?
>
> As I previously explained to you, the newspapers in NancyGene's simile
> represent "Yesterdays," or *Memories.*

That is also not a simile. If NastyGoon had said in the poem "Yesterdays
are like memories" that would be have been a simile, but they did not.
In your reading, they are also using a different literary device.

> If you haven't read the
> newspaper, you have no memory of its contents.

So you're saying that using "Yesterdays" to mean "memories" makes sense;
but we're discussing their simile, not that literary device.

> The speaker in
> NancyGene's poem feels as if they are unable to escape from their
> memories, so the *read* newspapers keep piling up -- becoming more
> oppressive with each passing day.

Which is not a good simile, as I said, because "read newspapers" do not
normall stack up that way - once they're read, they're thrown away. If
NastyGoon wanted to compare oppressive memories stacking up to something
else, they should have compared that to something that is read and not
thrown away; anything from magazines, to books, to downloaded files on a
hard drive. But comparing them to newspapers doesn't make sense.

> Both similies are good, by NancyGene's is more original: the idea of
> wasted time piling up on one is a common theme of poetry, whereas being
> weighed down by the past is not.

First, I didn't say Creeley was using "The days" to stand for wasted
time. Saying "Wasted time piles up like unread newspapers" wouldn't make
sense because the tenor (wasted time) does not pile up.

Second, if one wanted to say that their memories were oppressive (as you
say NG is trying to express with their simile) doesn't make sense
either, because (in addition to not normally stacking up in piles),
"read newspapers" aren't oppressive either.